A Creepy Date and Spectrophilia (Sexual Encounters with Ghosts)

“A Creepy Date and Spectrophilia”

a lightly edited Girl Boner Radio transcript

Niba:

I’m sure you ask so many women and men about their terrible dating stories. And if you ask the two, it’s so different the answers you get between like, what is the worst date you’ve ever had from a woman versus what is the worst that you’ve ever had from a man.

August (narration):

That’s Niba, of Notes by Niba and the Feminist Book Club podcast. You may recall her voice from the last “OMG” Sex and Dating stories episode – her story involved toilet needs done wrong during a first date.

And her point is valid, about women’s and men’s experiences. As security specialist Gavin de Becker wrote in his book, The Gift of Fear, “…at the core, men are afraid women will laugh at them…women are afraid men will kill them.” That is sadly often true. 

Whether you’re a woman or anyone who would like to feel safer in social situations, this next story from Niba is an important one. It’s about a date that could have gone terribly wrong.

Niba:

One time I showed up to a date, this is some dude I met off an app. We’re getting dinner. And I get to dinner. This is literally the first time we have ever met. We’ve exchanged maybe like 20 messages at best, like not a whole lot. And so I get there and we’re chatting, we’re getting to know each other some small talk stuff. 

August (narration):

Niba mentioned something and he replied, “Oh yeah, like your high school in the Bay Area.”

Niba:

And I’m like, “What do you what do you mean, my high school in the Bay Area? And he goes, “Oh, well, you you went to XYZ High School, right?” And I’m like, “Wait a second. Why do you know what high school I went to?” And he goes, “Oh, I mean, I just looked up your phone number and your name.” 

You know, I kind of look people up before a first date, but not very seriously, especially if we’re meeting in a public place where I can leave afterwards. And so I’m mentally like, Okay, what else do you know about me? And he proceeds to tell me about my own life, about where I grew up about me, all these awards that I’d gotten in high school, all these things I had done in college. 

He proceeds to tell me what my own research is. At the time, I was working as a scientist working on the genetics of plants and like how roots develop and stuff. And he’s like, “Yeah, you work in like [this] lab, and I think that’s really cool. And I’m like, this is so creepy. Like I get wanting to look up your person before a date. 

But you don’t go on to this deep – like he must have spent at least two or three hours for the amount of information that he had about me. So he proceeded to tell me about my own life and I’m sitting there in growing horror, and I’m like, God bless this guy doesn’t know where I frickin’ live. So I decided to be like, “Oh, I have to go to the bathroom.” 

So I go to the bathroom. And while I’m on my way to the bathroom, there’s a waitress and I pull the waitress aside and I’m like, “Hey, I think I’m in like some weird creepy stalker shit.” And bless this woman for the bonds of sisterhood. She immediately was just like, “Oh yeah, I got you. Do you want me to get your stuff you can go out the back?” Like we can do this. 

And I’m like, “Yeah, actually that would be great…this is way too scary.” So she leads me through the back and I’m hanging out in the kitchen [sounds of crowded restaurant] while she gets my stuff and she comes back and she’s like, “Yeah, he seemed kind of confused as to why you wanted your stuff so I just told him you’re on your period and you needed a pad or something.” And I was like, “Oh excellent, perfect.” 

And then I leave out the back door [door closing] and it was so creepy. [footsteps] I walked home because the place was like a couple blocks away from where I lived and the whole time I just remember looking over my shoulder and just being like God if he follows me home this is going to be like some next level nonsense. I just cannot. And the one nice thing about all of this is that he was relatively a smaller dude and I think of myself as being relatively fit and so I think like body mass wise we were either comparable or I was a little bit more so I was kind of like okay, at least I’m not like in some sort of like huge physical danger but also like you never know what these men. 

Every woman you ever asked knows the long way home you know like we all know that way home to go if someone is following us or feeling creepy or whatever. I know that like at bars there’s sometimes like secret drinks that you can order to the bartender to signal that you need a lift home and…I hate that that is a thing but I’m also glad that at least there’s the safety measure in place. 

And I don’t know. I kind of wonder if he meant well by it. But he also just kind of like I don’t know he just gave off extremely interested vibes and I mean I’m really cool. Anyone is lucky to have me but like, I also do not think you can be that interested on a first date.

This was a date that changed my dating life for the rest of eternity because he kept on texting me and so I put him on mute/do not give me alerts, but I had read somewhere that  you don’t necessarily want to block people who are harassing you because if you ever need to file a report you want to have that data available to show, hey this person has been trying to get to me in all these different ways which is a pretty grim thing to know about, but it’s something that was useful. And so he kept on hitting me up and luckily I’d muted everything so I wouldn’t see it unless I opened my phone and specifically checked my messages. 

But after this date I decided that I would never, ever, ever give my phone number out to a person until we had met in person and I had decided okay, I feel this level of comfort. On dating apps I’ve kind of mentioned like, “hey I had a bad experience giving out my phone number. I’m not comfortable giving this out until we’ve met.” And generally the response from dudes or women or nonbinary people is like, “I’m so sorry you’ve had that.” Some people try and push it and are like, “Oh, I’m not like that,” and I’m like, “I don’t care. This is my boundary. You can’t cross it.” 

I think everyone who’s been cool is pretty okay with it. I don’t think it’s a big deal to wait an extra second, you know? Your phone number is linked to your information online. It’s linked to all kinds of things. It gives away your area code which isn’t as big of a deal anymore, but there is information in your phone number. And I guess the way that he had looked me up is partially through my phone number. I just never really thought of the way that the information that you give out could be used against you in this fashion, and we try and assume positive intent or whatever, but that may not often be the case.

I think he finally stopped messaging me like a full semester later. I went on that date at the start of the semester and I remember I got a message from him during finals and I was like, why are you still contacting me? I literally did not respond to a single message. And you know, the messages would kind of oscillate between, “You’re so beautiful .You’re so cool. Please just give me another chance.” And then five seconds later it’ll be like “I didn’t even care about you. You’re ugly anyways.” Blah blah blah. And I’m like just move on with your life, man.

[acoustic chord riff]

August (narration):

Thankfully, he did move on, finally. And hopefully has changed his ways.

Now for another kind of creepiness: ghosts. [ghost sound] Back in 2016, I explored this question on the show: do ghosts have sex? [upbeat, ghostly music] I don’t know what I believe about ghosts, to be honest. I just know that there’s a lot I don’t know and always try to keep an open mind. And I figured if people experience other types of hauntings, sexy spooks must be a thing?

It took me a while to find someone to interview. I was also ghosted twice by experts, ironically. Finally it worked out for Erik Vanlier to join me in the studio. He’s the founder of Valley Investigators of the Paranormal and has 20 years of experience in the field. When he replied to my query, he shared that he had endured a sexual assault at the hands of a ghost. At the hands… Do ghosts have hands? See, there is still a lot I don’t know. 

So as a heads up, you will hear his recollections about that assault in this segment. First, here’s a bit about his entry into all-things-ghosts and spirits. 

Erik:

I was into some darker stuff, I was actually, you know, an out of control teen and I messed around with Satanism, I was never really in an organized group. But when I was younger I was into Satanism and horror films and all that, you know, wild stuff. 

So I used to go to the urban exploration and urban legend locations in the valley and elsewhere. And one day we were at this place that’s actually part of the Santa Monica Mountains and there’s a deep ravine there. And supposedly it had some ties to the Manson family. 

As soon as we get there, we hear a woman from the bottom of the ravine yelling. I used to live in you somebody and I know it wasn’t a coyote or anything like that. And if she had been killed, obviously, you would suppose that she wouldn’t be making sounds unless she was a ghost. There’s no way for anyone to get down there to murder or rape her. It’s just impossible. 

So we heard that and this was one of my and my friend who I was with first experiences and it kind of freaked us out. So we got back in the car and the car didn’t start and I looked under the hood. And the radiator hose was actually shredded completely in half, not from wear and tear, but like something could actually rip that. So I was like, “Well, what are we dealing with here?”

For some strange reason, I actually had duct tape on me in the car, something that I probably only carried that week. But I was able to duct tape it up and you know, get the car started enough to go to a mechanic the next day. 

And this was when Meetup groups started popping up. So I started joining a few of those. And a friend told me that there was going to be a lecture by a noted historian and paranormal investigator at Pierce College, followed by an investigation. So I went to his lecture and I was able to pick up on a lot of stuff psychically, such as where people died. 

I mentioned that I didn’t like one part of the property, which is actually where the graveyard is. And after that, I talked to someone who ran the ghost tours out of Pasadena and I had a long conversation with him and like this guy from Ventura, he told me that I was a spirit magnet. So I started going to more places.

August (narration):

Since then, Erik has led ghost hunts, what he called “vanishings of negative and demonic spirits” and “crossings of earthbound spirits” –  helping lingering spirits cross over to the other side. 

Leading up to the interview, I read up on spectrophilia, which is defined as the sexual attraction or arousal related to ghosts or the phenomenon of sexual encounters between humans and ghosts. 

A mic.com article by Taylor Prewitt tells the story of a woman named Joy, who said that since she was a little girl, a ghostly being stalked her in her bedroom late at night. At first she was terrified, but then she became an adult, and the ghost continued to visit her and became a familiar friend. 

She told the reporter, quote, “I used to have visits from strange spirits or whatever and actually have sex with them. It was very pleasurable. It was almost like I was in a real relationship with a guy.” 

Another instance that’s been featured in a range of publications is that of Natasha Blasick, an actress who, interestingly enough, appeared in the film “Paranormal Activity 2.” She’s said she could feel a presence coming closer and closer until she started to feel an actual touch. She described the sensation as human-like, but she could feel it all over her body.

I asked Erik if he considered these happenings common. 

Erik:

I don’t know if I would say it’s common, but I have definitely heard that before. And I’ve actually heard where some women have said that the entities were the best lovers that they’ve ever had.

August (narration):

Take a moment to let that sink in. The best lovers they’ve ever had? Critics would probably say that those experiences are really fantasies, conjured up by the person’s mind. I think both scenarios sound awesome.

Erik told me he has been both scratched and touched by ghosts or spirits.

Erik:

When you’re not expecting it, sometimes it’s frightening especially when you know you’re in a dark location. 

August (narration):

Oh my gosh, you think? I can’t even handle haunted houses.

Erik:

When you get touched, you actually notice it more than a scratch because it does feel like an actual human touching you. When you get scratched, sometimes you don’t feel it until moments later, and it’s just a burning sensation. It sounds kind of weird, but my experience being touched is actually more frightening than being scratched. It’s much more profound.

August (narration):

Sex-related experiences can also be frightening in a traumatic way, according to Erik and others in his field, involving some type of assault. 

August:

What can you tell us about what happened? You thought you were helping somebody crossover, is that right?

Erik:

Right. So we were called into a home in Orange County by a referral from a psychic who used to be on our team. And the homeowner actually had different properties in Orange County. So this house had been abandoned for 12 years. Her husband had died mysteriously. From my understanding, he knew that there was dark stuff going on at the house, and he wanted to burn the house down. And when he got this idea, he suddenly died and the doctor’s report was “no known cause of death.” 

He had a very eclectic background, as far as his sexual preferences were. Some would say that they were kind of twisted and morbid. The wife didn’t find out a lot about it until after he died, actually. And there was also a woman in the house who had died from cancer. 

So the client wanted us to communicate with her husband and try to cross them both over. So we took on this case, and the first night we were there, the client was there, and the four months that we worked on the case, we did not allow her in the house unless we there.

So the first night I was with one of the investigators that used to be with our group and the client and I went into the back area of the house where the bathroom is, while they stood sat at the kitchen table. And when I got out, standing, probably literally a foot away from me, was a woman that looked exactly like the woman in black from “Insidious,” just staring at me. She looked very, very old and disheveled and evil looking.

August:

When people say they see a ghost, does the does the ghost look flesh to you? Or is it kind of see-through?

Erik:

It’s hard to explain in this situation. It happened so fast, and it was so frightening that from my recollection, it was almost in my mind’s eye. But my reaction and the reaction that was seen by both the client and the other investigator tells me that, you know, it wasn’t any figment of my imagination or you know, any anticipation or anxiety or anything like that. They said I literally was shaking and that my skin was, no pun intended, white as a ghost. 

And that night, I had been outside smoking a cigarette, the client had left and the investigator came to me he played an MVP for me. And it said, we’ve been waiting for Eric and his penis.

August:

When you hear this, does it sound like a human voice or kind of like a garble-y sound?

Erik:

It sounded like it was from a distance, which should have been one of our first clues because a lot of times when you get an EVP from a demon it has like a well-type of sound, like the voice is coming from a well. But we didn’t think anything of it. I mean I was shaken up and I didn’t go into the house much more that night after I heard that MVP. But I mean for about five minutes him and I were laughing hysterically about it. We thought it was the funniest thing

August:

Because you probably don’t hear too many messages from ghosts about your penis, right? That’s unusual.

Erik:  

Right. And then we started going more you know, to the house more and more and crazy stuff started happening. We did some scrying in a mirror, which is where you stare at a mirror in a pitch black room with just a candle. And we all saw a little girl and a woman that looked like an old hag. I mean, they’re just tons of experiences. I saw a figure that looked like the Grim Reaper, as well as a this lady that had spent the night there one night with us. 

And one night when I wasn’t there, they had seen a little girl in the bathtub just covered head to toe in blood. There were crows. Crows usually are scavengers, but there was a tree on the front yard were crows would actually bring – [crow sounds] I don’t know how to describe it any better than sacrifices. They would actually bring things to this tree. So we started getting all these clues. And we weren’t sure what to do. 

So I reached out to pretty much everyone, as did my lead investigator. The Catholic church would not take the case. No one would take the case. They wouldn’t actually let me on this investigation for my own safety, just because of things that have happened to me on past investigations. I reached out to people in magical orders and secret societies that I knew that could possibly help us out. And people thought that it was too dangerous.

August:

Why were they thinking it was so dangerous? Were the ghosts kind of being threatening?

Erik:

Something amazing just happened, while we’re talking.

August:

Oh no.

Erik:

I just got scratched on my neck. 

August:

Did you really?

Erik:

I swear to you. My neck is burning right here.

August:

Ahh! Uh oh, is somebody mad we’re talking about this?

Erik:

I don’t know. 

August:

No offense, ghost!

Erik:

Yeah, my neck, the skin started just burning. 

August:

Oh my gosh. 

Erik:

So I reached out to everyone and no one would take it. People thought it was too evil, too dangerous a figment of my imagination. 

August (narration):

Side note, I love how he just rolled right back into what we’d been talking about before that—you know, “ghost scratch, maybe we upset a demon, anyway, life goes on.” I suppose he’s used to such things. For context, the two of us were sitting across from each other in a pretty small studio with the door closed. 

Erik:

So finally out of the clear blue someone with a very special gift reached out to us—knew that a group needed help knew that it was us. And between conversations with mainly my lead investigator and him, we found out that it was—if I start crying I apologize. This is I think we banished her at the house, but I think her presence is still around and-

August:

Why is that so emotional for you?

Erik:

I don’t know. I’ll get to the part where the sexual incident happened in a minute, but we found out that it was Lilith who was the first wife of Adam before Eve. And Adam wanted her to lay under him during sex and be subservient.

August (narration):

Um, why did I not learn about that in Sunday school?

Erik:

But she went to heaven or try to go to have in an was rebuked by the prophet Isaiah and started breeding with the demon Asmodeus to create demonic children and she actually became the serpent in the tree in the garden of Eden.

August (narration):

I mean, of course the tempestuous snake had to be female. Just saying.

There are a lot of different beliefs about Lilith and that snake, by the way. Someone posted on Quora, asking whether she was the serpent, and Sandy Sommers, a former ordained minister, replied:

“No, the snake was a snake… [according to Genesis]. Lilith was a separate myth where she was created at the same time as Adam. So she refused to be subservient to him. For this, the Catholic church demonized her and portray her with a snake wrapped around her. How dare she think she is equal to man?” End quote.

Erik and others also see good in Lilith, which is one reason he thinks it was emotional to talk about. 

Erik:

Lilith is also in paganism, the goddess of fertility. She’s a very revered goddess. She’s like a yin yang. There’s the very negative demonic side and there’s the very positive goddess of fertility side. 

August (narration):

I got the sense that Erik feels a lot of compassion and empathy, toward Lilith and the stories or myths surrounding her, regardless of what happened in his story next. 

Erik:

We had the specialist come. He went in the house and trapped her in a mirror and he put something similar to a circle of Solomon like in the paranormal activity movie on the mirror, and then put an actual amulet of Lilith on the mirror and then covered it with a blessed blanket. 

I was at the property at the time, but I was not allowed in the house when the final blessings or rites were done, which, to my understanding were done in Sumerian and Babylonian.

August:

Is that how you help someone crossover?

Erik:

Not how I do. This guy is very specialized and this was a very unique case. 

So my lead investigator and I spent the night alone at the house that night and in the morning. We heard her saying, you know, we heard a shrill voice saying, “Help! Get me out, get me out.” Like a woman pleading from behind the mirror. 

But that morning, he was joking around and he said, “should we give the amulet to the client?” 

August (narration):

In case you missed it, the amulet was a necklace they’d hung on the mirror they attempted to trap Lilith in.

Erik:

And I said, “Well, I don’t know if that’s a good idea might be, you know, it might have Lilith’s negative energy attached to it.” And as soon as I said that, you know how, like some houses in the front, they have like that bark? Okay, well, I got very dizzy. I don’t know if I passed out or what, but I hit my head on the bark. And this was that soft bark. And I actually fell hard enough to receive a concussion, just inches away, was actual bricks. And my lead investigator says that if I had hit the brick at the velocity, I was going, I could have very easily been seriously injured, if not killed. 

And that’s what they thought was going to happen to me the night that they crossed over the old woman and the husband. They thought that Lilith was going to get pissed. And they said that if I was there, because of my background in the occult, the same reason why I was not at the house at the exact moment when they did the actual final rites, that something very dramatic could have happened to me.

August (narration):

Soon, Erik said, he realized that something dramatic had happened to him.

Erik: 

I didn’t realize it until later. But one night, I believe it was the same night that I had seen the Grim Reaper, or the Grim Reaper looking figure was a dark figure with a skeletal face and a black hood. The next morning, everybody had left. It was just me and my lead investigator. And at about 8am, he was in the far end of the house, where the bathroom is. And all of a sudden, I start hearing the sounds of rough, passionate sex in my ear. And I was thinking to myself, you know, what the hell is this? 

I knew it wasn’t him doing, you know, things that people do. Because the bathroom was quite a distance away and the door is closed, and I wouldn’t hear that. And it was right in my ear.

It actually, at times, sounded like two people. Then the sound stopped and the error smelled like semen. And I mean, a lot of people busted my balls, but I mean, come on, guys. If you’re not eating pineapple or fruit that night, your semen is going to smell a little bit like corn starch. 

August:

Like cum trees.

Erik:

Yeah, exactly. Thank you.

August:

Yeah. It’s natural to have natural aroma.

Erik:  

[laughs] Exactly. August has my back. 

So it smells like that. And the lead investigator came in, and he’s like, “What the eff is that? It smells like sex in here.” And we didn’t realize what happened until later. What had happened was that Lilith had taken my semen. She’s a succubus. She rapes unmarried men. She had taken my semen without me ejaculating. It sounds biblical or whatever, it sounds preposterous. But we believe that she may have had intentions to create demonic children with my semen.

August:

Did you feel… When any time someone goes through a trauma, a sexual trauma or rape there’s so much you know, intense emotions and a lot of times really serious healing that needs to take place. Did you feel that deep sense of violation?

Erik:

That’s a good question. I’m not sure that’s the honest that’s the honest answer. I’m not sure I don’t know if I haven’t completely processed it. Although it was probably nine to 10 months ago now. I don’t know if it’s completely hit me. 

I have had some very lucid and disturbing dreams. And I mean they might not be directly related to her. You know, Jung and Freud, they believe stuff that comes out in your dreams and it’s up to you to interpret them. Although there are, you know, professionals that also do that. So I don’t know if they’re related to her or not. But I’ve definitely had a lot more lucid and vivid and realistic nightmares in the last year than I have since I was a child.

August (narration):

I haven’t connected with Erik since our interview, but I hope he’s doing well. He told me he continues to do this work, regardless of the emotional toll it takes, because he gets enjoyment from doing the research and from helping people. And when people say, “this stuff isn’t real,” he thinks, “Well, here I am experiencing it.”

I did have to ask him one more sex-related question for curious Girl Boner minds.

August:

 I know that somebody who’s listening, if not numerous, somebodies, is wondering if they wanted to have some sort of romantic or sexual experience with a ghost or a spirit, can you attract them on your own? Or does it not work that way?

Erik:

I wouldn’t know how to do that. I mean, what happened to me definitely was not something done on my will, you know? I wouldn’t recommend it. But I mean, there are ways to summons entities, whether it’s through black magic or through the use of divination. 

If you want to have a sexual relationship with an entity, especially a demon, then some sort of black magic ritual or even blood sacrifice—I’m not talking about killing someone—but you know, during a ritual where you draw a pentagram, and you put a few drops of your own blood in the pentagram and do some kind of incantation, then perhaps that can happen.

August:

Yeah, I don’t know if I really want to do that. [Erik laughs] But maybe somebody out there is interested. Please proceed at your own risk and take care of yourselves in every way. You can also fantasize about this stuff. That’s always cool, very safe, right? You don’t have to donate blood or any of that, jazz.

[acoustic chord riff]

August (narration):

I did just read that legend has it in Malaysia that you need to wash reusable menstrual pads before throwing them out. Otherwise ghosts will come and haunt you. So perhaps there’s something there as well. No need to injure yourself. 

Of course, if pain is one of your kinks, there are ways to safely make that happen. To do so with some fun accessories, head to thepleasurechest.com. You still have time to check out their Kink-tober specials and to shop their curated collection of the Best BDSM Toys. They have floggers, bondange kits, silk ties, nipple bulbs and so much more. Again that’s The Pleasure Chest at thepleasurechest.com.

[guitar strum]

To hear a myth about sex and dating Niba pointed out and an important takeaway from her over 200 first dates, as well as my full, unedited ghostly conversation with Erik, join my community at patreon.com/girlboner. For about the cost of one large latte per month, you can get access to bonus content, Ask Me Anything and more, while supporting my mission to reach more people and one day build my team. 

You can also support the show by leaving a rating and review in the iTunes Store or your Apple Podcasts app and letting your friends know about it.

Thanks so much for listening and have a beautiful, Girl Boner embracing week.