Savvy Sex Rituals + Her 2 Loves

“Savvy Sex Rituals + Her 2 Loves”

a Girl Boner podcast transcript

August: Hey, friend. A quick note that this is our last episode before my summer podcasting break. After this, I’ll release one replay per month until September. Then we’ll be back full force, with stories I’m already so excited for you to hear.

Joan: 

When I am done with my shower and I am ready to have Mac come to my bed, I will ring our sex bell, and it makes a big clanging sound that he can hear all the way down the hall and in another room… We don’t have to go, “Uh, so are you ready yet? Are you ready? Aren’t you ready yet?”

No, none of that happens. He just waits for the bell.

August/narration:

Joan Price is an author, speaker, and advocate for ageless sexuality. As I’ve mentioned, her love story with an artist named Robert is one of my favorites. Well guess what? Her love story with another man is one of my favorites, too.

Before we get to sex rituals they’ve cultivated together—which I think we can all learn from—let’s go back.

As a young teen, Joan said, she learned to fear sex.

Joan: I learned that sex will get me into trouble. My father was a gynecologist and obstetrician, and he saw girls in trouble—and in those days, I’m 82 right now, so those days were in the ‘50s—if a teenage girl got pregnant then she suddenly left school. Sometimes she came back the next year. Sometimes she didn’t. We were told she’s staying with an aunt. Well, she went off to have her child to give it up for adoption.

August: Did you learn, like so many folks do, that sex is for marriage?

Joan: Sex is for marriage, yes. And the perils of sex are all around me. I learned that. That boys will take advantage because boys are boys, you know, no problem with that. That’s how they are. The problem is that we need to keep our legs closed. In fact, my father was fond of saying, “The best birth control is a dime, a dime held closely between the knees.”

August/narration:

In her teens, she realized that desire and pleasure existed for her, not just for boys.

Joan: When I first started experiencing pleasure and desire and arousal in a necking session. Does anyone still say necking? It meant lots of kissing…

August: Yeah, I love it.

Joan: …kissing that did not detach. When I first experienced that, I had no idea what I was feeling. I thought, “Oh, look at me. I am so special. I have invented these feelings.” Because I was never taught about pleasure and desire and arousal. Only be careful because boys will want to get their way with us.

The problem with it is that because I didn’t know anything about it, because I wasn’t prepared that yes, girls get aroused and feel pleasure, then I could have taken that anywhere without any awareness of… I mean, I didn’t put that together with girls getting in trouble. I just put that together with this feels so good, I don’t ever wanna stop doing this.

August: So were you self-pleasuring?

Joan: No, I didn’t know that girls could. I wasn’t taught what it would feel like.

August/narration:

She wasn’t taught about periods either.

Joan: There was one time when I was having terrible cramps and I didn’t know it was associated with my period. Since my father was a doctor, you know, of course, “Daddy, I’ve got this stomachache.” That’s all I knew what to say about it. “I have this terrible stomachache.” And he said, “Well, let me examine you.” And when he started to pull my pajama pants down and he saw that I had the sanitary napkin belt and the safety pins and those things we used to wear, then he went, “Oh, well, it’s because you’re having your period.”Well, why wasn’t I told about that?

August: And how scary to have this pain.

Joan: I know. And my mother, who never experienced menstrual cramps, thought I was making it up in order to stay home from school, so that when, on the heavy day of my period, I inevitably got really severe cramps, doubling-over cramps. She would send me to school anyway, and then I would end up in the nurse’s office. And she would be called to come get me.

And she would be mad at me because she’s working. She worked at my father’s office. She couldn’t just take off and come pick up her daughter and take her home, go back to the office, but she had to do that every damn month because she wouldn’t believe me.

August: Oh my goodness. I can see you’re having feelings just recalling it because it’s such an intense time of life anyway.

Joan: It is. Our bodies are changing. We have no idea what they’re gonna become. Starting to get breasts. Well, was I gonna look like my mother? What was gonna happen? I wish I’d had a loving introduction to what was going on with me.

August/narration:

Her experiences in young adulthood shifted things.

Joan: Starting at college when I started experiencing sex with a number of different people, and usually no orgasm through that. But occasionally, there’d be someone who knew what to do, knew what a clitoris was, how to find it, what to do with it. And I went, Oh, really? Oh, this is what it’s all about. This is what’s been hidden from me.

This is what no one told me. Well, I guess I better just shake off what I wasn’t told and start learning it for myself. And so I did.

August/narration:

When Joan and Robert met, she was 57 and he was 64.

Joan: My lucky luckiest day was December 11th, 2000, when he found his way to the line dance class I was teaching.

He walked in, and I tried to remember to breathe. I was instantly attracted to him. I looked into his eyes. I looked at his beautiful white hair, his dancer’s body, though I didn’t know at that point that he was already a dancer.

I looked at the top of his shirt where he had two buttons unbuttoned, and his white chest hair was peeking through, and I wanted to touch it. It was all I could do to keep my hands to myself. I just wanted to reach out and touch that tuft of hair.

Nine months later I would get to do that. And I wouldn’t stop doing that for seven years.

August/narration:

She learned so much during those years.

Joan: I learned everything about love as an older person, sex as an older person, how we can experience a connection that surpasses anything in our lives, that even if we lose that person I would not change a thing.

What I take with me is filled with what Robert and I had, what I learned about love and connection and compromise. I was really independent, and my way is the way I wanna do it, and don’t try to change me, and so was he.

And then I learned during the first few years of our relationship, the first year maybe that I had to meet him where he was. And changing some things in order to do that didn’t mean that I was negating anything in myself. I learned that this change I might be embarking on was a change I wanted to happen. And that was so new to me, August, because from the time I was a child, I resisted change. If my mother wanted me to do something, that was reason to do the opposite. I won’t say I became that nasty child into adulthood, but I did become what my first husband called General Will. That was his nickname for me, General Will.

August/narration:

But with Robert, she became vulnerable and open. She learned that—

Joan: —you know, in order to be with this man, I need to embrace this part of myself I’ve never explored.

He learned the same thing, and we’d talk about that. even something as simple and silly maybe sounding as I learned to be quiet. And he learned to play. He’d had a very difficult childhood himself. We can’t help but be formed by our childhood experiences. As we formulate who we are as adults, if we’re lucky, we get to decide what we reject, what we take with us, and what we change.

Then as we get to older adulthood, we may have thought, as I thought, Well, this is the person I am now. I wanna be this person. I’ve been striving to be this person, and here I am. Don’t try to change me. But then what happens when it’s time to change some more?

August/narration:

Robert died in 2008.

Joan: I lost him to cancer Exactly seven years to the day from our first kiss.

August/narration:

Nine years later, Joan would meet another man she’d fall in love with—after a lot of self-work, healing, and writing.

Joan: First, I went through profound, profound grief, where I was barely functioning at first after losing Robert. And I had grief counselors. I would not have come out the other end the way I did if it hadn’t been for them.

I had tried all sorts of different things. Sex with old friends didn’t work. Sex with another old friend that did work. An erotic massage. I mean, so many things. A lot of first dates that I never wanted to turn into second dates. And just thinking, “Well, I’m ready. I’m ready for the touch of someone. I can pleasure myself. I can give myself orgasms. Yeah, no problem. I have drawers full of sex toys.” But there’s something missing from the pillow talk, from the laughter, from the closeness, from the skin being touched by another person, the surprises of sex with a different person.

August/narration:

Once she felt ready, she joined OKCupid.

Joan: One of the dating sites, and then someone caught my attention. He was smart, accomplished, fit, communicative. He was a retired anthropology professor. Oh, yes, my intellect said, “Bring it on.” He was a handsome man with a beautiful smile.

He’d had lots of life experiences. And, he was a widower. He had very recently lost his wife of many years after caregiving. He had started his grieving process while she was ill and he was ready to find joy again.

August/narration:

They chatted on the app and then moved to email.

Joan: We wanted to know as much as we could about each other. The best message ever was after we’d had our first date, which had gone wonderfully, we couldn’t get enough of exchanging experiences, ideas, asking questions, answering questions.

We took a long walk together. Then we weren’t done with each other, so we went to dinner together, and we talked and talked and talked. And then went back to the emails. Email after email after email after email.

At one point, I said to him, “Is there anything you wanna know about me that you haven’t asked yet?” And he said, “Yes. Can you imagine having sex with me?” And I responded, “I’m imagining it now.” And that was the beginning. The next date we had sex. We really enjoyed it. We were really hungry for each other. That started a nine-year and counting relationship.

August/narration:

Today, Joan and Mac live apart and together., or LAT. That decision, she said, was a breeze.

Joan:

As we got to know each other, the relationship deepened and deepened. But we never wanted to live together. We each had our own houses set up the way we wanted. My house is full of Robert’s paintings. He was an artist and I have, I think, forty-five paintings on the wall.

And there isn’t room for another person I have a small redwood cottage, and he has a bigger house. His is in the city, mine is in the country. And we each have attachments to our homes and the ways we have them decorated and what we do in them. We have very different schedules, sleep schedules, day schedules. So, we were happy to spend time together. And we were happy to occasionally do overnights when we first started.

August/narration:

Nearly a decade later, Joan stays at his house a night or two per week.

Joan: We do so many things together. He loves my line dance classes, so he comes to those. He joined my book club, which is over Zoom. But we still don’t wanna move in together.

 Now, we have had times where I needed to live at his house. And he always says, “It’s our house,” so I will say, “At our house,” which he owns.

August/narration:

A recent time was for a scary reason.

Joan: In April, I was in a car crash, and I broke my neck in three places. I could not care for myself. It was a very hard time. I was in what I thought of as a cage. It was a metal neck brace that prevented all motion in my neck, most motion in my jaw, my upper back. I was immobilized because the neck fractures were so dangerous.

I had to use a walker just to make sure I didn’t fall. And so I moved in with him so he could care for me and feed me and take me places.

August/narration:

Once Joan was in better shape, Mac did something else really beautiful.

Joan: He would just drive me to my own house so I could stay there for a day. I could just be in my own house, and then he’d come pick me up again. He’s just a beautiful person in every way and did everything he could to make that time a little easier on me

August/narration:

That care definitely extends to the bedroom. A couple of months ago, Joan and Mac were featured in a New York Times article called “How Older Adults Are Improving Their ‘Sex Span’ “ It’s an insightful piece that features gorgeous photos of them both. My favorite part talked about their sex rituals — one involves a sex bell.

Joan:

You’re right, they are rituals. They are sexy and they are fun. I was laughing as you were bringing it up because the sex bell made the most impact of anything I talked about. I see that in the comments on The New York Times article, “Sex bell, sex bell, the sex bell.”

August: Maybe you’ll start this huge trend, which would be beautiful.

Joan: I should have a branded sex bell, right?

August/narration:

The rituals go like this:

Joan: We have scheduled sex in advance because we always do. You know, we want to make time for it. One of the rituals is that we have the sex toys charged that we might want to use. We have our sex baskets with the lube, the toys, maybe a blindfold that day. We have a his and hers basket by the bed.

Another ritual is that just before the time of our scheduled sex date. We both shower. I’m always late because I’m always running behind. There’s this card that I wish I still had. It shows the picture of a woman jogger, and she’s leading on a leash a pair of buttocks with legs, and the caption is, “I’m always running a little behind.” I don’t know why I brought that up. My point is, I’m always running a little behind.

August/narration:

She gets there eventually.

Joan: When I am done with my shower and I am ready to have Mac come to my bed, he’s in another room in his bathrobe waiting. I will ring our sex bell, and it makes a big clanging sound that he can hear all the way down the hall and in another room.

It’s like the Pavlovian response. When he hears the bell, he’s ready and he comes to the room. But it’s a wonderful thing. We we love it. We don’t have to go, “Uh, so are you ready yet? Are you ready? Aren’t you ready yet?”No, none of that happens. He just waits for the bell.

August/narration:

When Joan looks back on her early sexual experiences, her sex life now seems world’s apart.

Joan: It’s so different because we know what we like. We know what the other person likes. We know how our partner gets aroused and what it takes.

One of the things we do, which I recommend very strongly, is take turns pleasuring each other. Because especially as we age, there isn’t going to be one specific sexual activity that is best for both of you. So if instead you say something as we do, “How would you like to be pleasured today? What would you like today?” And we also ask, “What hurts and what works today?” because that’s always a big thing the older we get and the more injuries and medical issues we have. All of these things are part of how we have sex these days. To invite all that in instead of pretending it doesn’t exist makes it more likely that sex will work.

August/narration:

And, they take their time.

Joan: …time for cuddling and laughing and talking. It’s a minimum an hour, often more

August/narration:

Joan is a brilliant, renowned sexuality expert. And she remains a curious student.

Joan: Since our bodies keep changing, we have to keep taking the what is sex now course. We have to keep Exploring. We have to keep compensating for issues we have medically or just body parts that don’t work so well anymore, so what do we do instead?

Certainly with my neck issues, it has restricted some of the things I can do. It maybe always will. I don’t know that, but I assume yes. It’s like my injured neck is a third person almost.

And we need to be open to that change because too often I hear from people, their bodies change or their relationships change or something changes, and so sex is over. It doesn’t have to be over. It just has to change

August/narration:

In terms of wisdom to go away with, Joan wanted you all to hear this:

Joan: First. explore on your own to know what you want, whether that is talking about sex or a relationship or a life issue, and then communicate that in a loving way to a partner, if you have a partner, or if you have a potential partner, and I’m not assuming you do, but if you do.

And not be afraid to ask for what you want, because if you don’t ask, the answer is no. If you do ask, the answer may still be no, but it might be yes.

August/narration:

A new edition of Joan’s most popular book, Naked at Our Age: Talking Out Loud About Senior Sex, was recently published.

Joan: Naked at Our Age first came out in 2011. And it has become a classic and it is still being read, it is still being bought, it is still being chosen as one of the best sex books by the media, The Guardian, The New York Times, and I have recently updated it.

I haven’t changed a lot. I’ve added on a little at the beginning and quite a bit at the end. I didn’t wanna change the content. You know, I considered it. The publisher said, “Whatever you wanna do is fine with us.” And I said, “The reason it’s a classic is the content that’s in it right now.”

The last chapter now, the new chapter is called, If I Knew Then What I Know Now.” One of the things, because it amused me so much, is that in the original edition, in the dating chapter, I mentioned online dating, which was happening in 2011. But I said the best way to meet people, though, is in person, doing the things you love, and then you’ll meet other people who love the same things.

I still believe that part, but online dating is where the people are. And so I kinda laughed at myself in the end, the end update where I said, you know, “Who knew?

August: Well, look what happened to you.

Joan: Yes, and I included that. I just had to say, this is where the people are. And don’t be afraid of it as I was at first

August/narration:

The book Joan wrote in 2019, updated in 2024, is called Sex After Grief: Navigating Your Sexuality After Losing Your Beloved.

Joan: It’s my love child, that book. And it’s about my grief journey and how I came to embrace sexuality again, but it’s also other people’s.

I invited stories from grievers, and the book is full of other people’s stories because we all grieve differently, we all come back to sex differently, different timelines, different methods, different things we want, different choices about the kind of sex we want, which could be, and often is, very different from the kind of relationship we lost. The stories are sometimes funny and sometimes sad and always inspiring because we learn from stories.

August/narration:

You can learn more about Joan’s work at joanprice.com.

Joan: And if you’re in the United States you can order any of my books directly from me, and I’ll autograph them for you. But however you read it, I hope you’ll read it or any of the books that I’ve written, because there’s so much to learn and so much to think about. .

Whatever your age now, you can learn from people who are older because we’ve been your age, you haven’t been ours. And what we’re going through now is your life in the future if you’re lucky enough to live this long.

[encouraging, acoustic music]

August/narration:

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Thanks so much for listening.