“The witch is a traveler. She has traversed continents, cultures, and epochs, carrying with her millennia of conflicting ideas about sex and gender, magic and power.”
So starts Witch Hunt: A Traveler’s Guide to the Power and Persecution of the Witch, a new book by Kristen J. Sollée writer, curator, and educator, who happens to be a second-generation witch herself. She joined me last year to explore themes from her previous book, Cat Call, and as soon as I saw that her latest book was released, I knew I wanted to have her back on.
We’re so fortunate that she was able to join us. Like so many people, Kristen’s has been impacted by the coronavirus. She’s been dealing with what’s known as long haul COVID, and a flare up nearly kept us from connecting. I’m so glad she felt up to it after all, for her sake first and foremost, and secondly for all of us.
Together we explored her inspiration for Witch Hunt, the intensely personal project it became and her thoughts on some sexy, witch-embodying role play ideas.
Stream the full episode on Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Spotify or below! Read on for a lightly edited transcript, broken up by theme.
Long-haul COVID
First, she shared a bit about her experience with COVID-19.
Kristen:
I got it super early in New York City in March, like three days after lockdown. So clearly, I was out and about with the germs. I thought I got over it. I didn’t end up in the hospital, even though I kind of wanted to go many times, but you just couldn’t in New York, so you just dealt with that, you know? I got a bit better for a while, and then a lot of symptoms kept coming back.
Now, it’s a common thing. People know a bit about long-haul COVID. Your nervous system gets all spun out. So weird stuff happens and some days you’re okay and other days, you can’t breathe so well and talking’s harder. So this morning, I woke up and I was like, Oh, no, I can’t do the podcast! I can’t talk, I can’t breathe. And then a couple hours later, I was a little better… It turns you into a super flaky, weird person. COVID does a number on your body even after you are quote unquote better. I think it’s like 10% of cases are long-haul and like nine out of 10 people have lingering symptoms – if they don’t die.
August:
Yeah, absolutely. I’m so glad that you are doing much better. Even though you are still experiencing symptoms. I’m just sending you so much good energy and whew… It’s a lot.
Kristen:
I appreciate it. And it’s good to be able to have something fun to do as well, even if it’s like the nerves of like, Can I do this? And it’s funny to be nervous about being able to talk. That is such a simple thing we take for granted. And, man. Leading up to my book release a couple weeks ago and all summer, I was like, Oh my god, can I talk?
It’s an absurd thing you never think about until and it’s the same thing with walking. I can’t really walk very far. I can’t walk up stairs without a lot of difficulty. I can go out and ride around in a car and do little things. But then there’ve been stores I want to go to, but there’s big steps to get up there.
And obviously, there are plenty of people with disabilities who deal with this all the time. I am obviously learning how inaccessible much of the world is if you have mobility issues. It’s not a fun way to learn it, but I just feel like, Oh, I’m really gonna remember this, you know? And do what I can in the future to help advocate for more accessible venues and places. I’m embarrassed I didn’t know as much as I do now. But you know, firsthand experience is just a thing that you can’t ever get till you get, right?
Kristen’s new book
August:
It’s so interesting and really, I don’t know if you’d use the word ironic, that your new book, Witch Hunt, which is incredible.
Kristen:
Oh, thank you.
August:
I’m reading it right now. It’s a travelogue.
Kristen:
Yeah…
August:
To me, the timing feels really profoundly beautiful. Because I think we are all longing, or many of us are longing for some kind of escape, to be able to travel even if we aren’t really physically traveling. And I really loved your introduction, you mentioned, there is no substitute for the magic of place. And that’s really thought of before and I think right now, especially, I’m missing a lot of places. Would you share a bit about that?
Kristen:
Yeah, so I loved traveling all my life. I did it a lot with parents who had world traveling type jobs, and also just for fun when I could afford it. And so I have always wanted a travel guide to the early modern witch hunts or places that are associated with contemporary witchcraft. But if you look in a bookstore for a witch travel guide, you’re gonna get a book about traversing the astral realm or something, not the earthly one. So I initially wanted to just do more of a history and a little travelogue or whatever. And then the more I thought about it, I did want it to be accessible because not everyone can travel, even outside the pandemic. It costs money. You have to have the physical ability to travel, the time. You know, all of that. If you have kids, you know, childcare.
So I really wanted to be able to make it an immersive journey, so I added some historical fiction to go deep into some of these characters and these places I visit. And then I also tempered that with leading historical references from people who study the witch hunts and that’s all they do. And then on top of that, I talk about going to all these places. And I’ve been going to these places for years sometimes. Sometimes I just recently went for the purpose of the book.
I have always felt a strong connection to places and the energies that are in places and knowing that places are alive, you know? What came before kind of lives on, metaphorically and metaphysically. And so I have always gone to places alone often. I was an only child and I would be alone a lot growing up. So I spent a lot of timelistening and tuning into the place I was at. That was the driving force behind how I wrote this book.
And so, yeah, I think you’re right. I was trying to finish this while being sick… I did a lot of editing in pandemic quarantine times. I was like, this is gonna be a disaster. No one cares. And I was like, wait, no, you wrote this because not everyone can like put their feet on the ground and go to these places. You should be able to travel from your chair, from your desk, from your bed, wherever… I miss these places and I miss the magic of place. So I feel like it’s been kind of a bomb for me, too.
August:
That’s so beautiful. You went to so many different countries, all over the world. Is there a particular place that you visited that spoke to you in a way that felt especially meaningful?
Kristen:
That’s a hard one, because I almost felt that about every place I went. But I really like learning about some of the trials and particularly the women’s lives that were not the big, flashy ones that always get treated in studies by historians… Like I’m from Maryland and I didn’t know there were witch trials in Maryland. You think about Salem, maybe Connecticut… That’s it, you know? And then, of course, many places all over Europe. But I dug deeper into some of these little local cases around where I was from and that kind of brought me closer to the place I grew up and to these histories that have been lost or glossed over or ignored. And I think those are what are meaningful. I feel like I was connecting to these people, often whose stories have been kind of forgotten or told in a distorted way.
August:
Mmm… And I think that’s a really important piece to bring to readers, too. Because just as we can’t go to certain places, many of us would never have even heard of some of these people. And I really appreciate that you did explore stories and places that weren’t as kind of stereotypically witch-related.
In the introduction you wrote that as you were digging deeper into your research, your own bloodline beckoned. How did that happen?
Kristen:
So that was super weird. I know some of my ancestry that was pretty obvious. A lot of people from Ireland in my family came over late 1800s.That’s been sort of kept alive. The Irish Catholic thing is a big part of one side of my family. But I didn’t do 23andMe until right before I was going on my trip.
When I got my results, everywhere I was going—I’d already made the itinerary—I had somewhat recent ancestry, which means that there’s sort of this ancestral connection to all these histories. Whether very close or not, it still says something to me. I had no idea there was an Italian connection… So that really changed things. In a way, it kind of made it more exciting. And I started wondering who or what came before really thinking about my ancestors and doing a little more ancestor work in a way that helped me tap into some of these stories.
August:
Were you researching your ancestry for the sake of this book? Or was it just kind of coincidental?
Kristen:
Totally coincidental. I had done ancestor work with some pieces that I knew about, but it wasn’t like a huge calling for me yet… I feel like you maybe get to a certain age or a certain place and then suddenly you really want to know. That sort of happened after I started researching for this book. So I wasn’t really into it before so much and then I was like, wait, why am I not into this? Too many coincidences, you know what I mean? There are some synchronicities here that are beyond.
August:
Yeah, the ultimate affirmation to be like, Oh, your travel plan? Also, it’s you.
Kristen:
Yeah, right?
Witches and sex positivity
August:
That’s amazing. So there’s a quote that you shared from a book early on that really stood out to me. And maybe you can give us some context because I know it’s from a book that you find out some things about…but I love this idea: “For the witch, sexuality is good and scientific logic must be followed freely.” And that was credited to Marion Gibson.
Kristen:
So she’s talking about Jules Michelet’s La Sorcière. That was like a Romantic retelling of the witch hunts. It’s super influential, because a lot of people sort of took it as fact, and it’s influenced a lot of contemporary feminists to this day, because it sort of framed the witch as this sex-positive feminist, if you will.
We know the archetype of witch, she was free from patriarchal influence. But it’s not like thousands of people accused of witchcraft were all sex-positive progressives, of course. Historically, they lived in Christian societies and were often devout themselves. Some practiced elements of folk magic, which could have gotten them branded a witch, but oftentimes, it was just wrong place/wrong time, community strife, political corruption, religious corruption, etcetera.
But, that doesn’t mean that the mythos and the archetype of the witch isn’t strongly influenced by empowered female sexuality, and liberation from, you know, heterosexuality and monogamy and gender roles. Because all that visual art from the early modern period shows, witches sexualizing older women, you know, and queer couplings of witches—all these inversions of what the “proper woman” was supposed to be. That’s definitely real. So I think that is where we can get that feminist witch archetype from.
And so La Sorcière took that and sort of said that was actually what was happening, which is not quite true. But then some feminists picked it up and ran with it. And it’s very galvanizing for political action today, so that’s awesome. I don’t really care if it’s historically accurate or not, as long as you know. I think it’s good everyone knows we can twist history for useful ways to help us transcend the oppressive state of the present. So that’s great. But as long as we know we’re still twisting history a bit, you know?
August:
It’s really interesting to me how when sex positivity does come up in these different stories, it gets vilified so much. I don’t know if this is my own bias, because of my own value system and what I really am passionate about, or if that’s really how a lot of people would perceive it. It always feels to me like the thing that gets vilified the most is something to do with sexuality.
Kristen:
Of course, sex or gender. Patriarchy doesn’t want to be challenged, right? And it’s only underpinned by these weird oppressive ideas about the gender binary, and male sexuality dominating all things and whatnot.
August:
Right! So a witch who was really into herbs, for example, might not be vilified as much or the same way as one who really embraced her desires?
Kristen:
I mean, historically, there was still so much fear about healing and healing powers. I don’t know if I can say historically that’s the truth, but you certainly hear more about midwives and women who seem to be behaving in ways that were not “appropriate”… So even if they’re not “sluts” by our current standards, there would be something off. There’s something that they’re defying there. At least according to their community, there’s something wrong with them.
Witch-themed role play ideas! And some orgasm magic…
August (narration):
A lot has changed since then, of course, as far as how witches are perceived. Many people celebrate witches all year round, if not throughout October or around Halloween. Given that the holiday is approaching and we can’t safely go to typical costume parties and the like, during the pandemic, it seemed like a good time to celebrate taking on characters in spicy ways at home. Yes, I am talking about roleplay.
I found an article called “Sexy Witch Fantasies and Sexual Magic Role Play Games” on the site Frisky Sexual Fantasies, and decided to explore some of its suggestions for embracing your sexy inner witch with Kristen. I was curious about any historical context that came to mind for her, whether some are just plain made up and if certain accessories or scenes brought anything from her research to mind. We started with eerie background music or sound effects.
Kristen:
Ooh…. I mean, I love a good Halloween sound effect. I will put that on and just hang out in my place, so that’s just me. I feel like that’s more associated with the archetypal witch of cinema and horror films. You’ve got to, you know, have that when you’re thinking about those witches. So I think obviously, there’s no historical underpinnings of that.
August:
There was no scary music when they walked around?
Kristen:
I don’t think so. But you know, we weren’t there. So we’ll never really know.
August:
That’s really true. What about a selection of magic wands? So in a sex scenario, this can be a glass dildo, which are really fun and beautiful and make good art. By the way, I think we should keep them around our houses, vibrators, butt plugs, but magic wands. Where does that idea come from?
Kristen:
It’s more from ceremonial magic, when there would be a lot of literal ceremony around the magic you’re practicing. So that’s not always associated with witchcraft historically, but it’s sort of all melded together. And when I hear magic wand, I think of Chakrubs, because I’m a huge Chakrubs fan. And when I discovered a crystal sex toy with healing potential? Yes, please. That is like the truest magic wand out there.
August:
Beautiful. That made me think of, just as a little side note, we talked about orgasm magic a bit in our last conversation or sex magic. And you talked about orgasming with intention, masturbating with intention, and how that seemed to play a role and you getting a book deal.
Kristen:
Oh, yeah.
August:
And I said, I’m going to do this for my next book. And so I did, and I did get a book deal.
Kristen:
Oh my god.
August:
I didn’t get the advance amount that I wanted. However, maybe that’ll just be sprinkled out over time. But I wanted to thank you.
Kristen:
Oh my god, I’m so excited to hear that. I think we need to start doing seminars. Authors, sex magic. That’s how you get a book deal.
August:
You know what? It’s a very underrated tip. And so fun. Just really thinking about how much you want this. There seems to be this idea that if we want something too much, that’s shameful.
Kristen:
Mm hmm.
August:
You know, like I really want a book deal. I really want to work with somebody who works this way and believes this. I want money. Why can’t we just say money is good? I mean, money is neutral money can be used for good. What’s wrong with wanting it? Wanting safety and security? To be able to do fun things and give back?
Kristen:
Absolutely. Because if you put a stopper on desire, like any desire, that’s not good. You know, you’ve gotta have that channel open and flowing.
August (narration):
Speaking of manifesting, next we explored bubbly potion or a magic elixir. In a role playing context, that might be champagne, wine or an herbal enhancer. This idea reminded Kirsten ofGiovanna El Toso of Florence.
In Witch Hunt, Kristen shared that Giovanna, according to records from 1427, was accused of drawing “the chaste spirit” of a man “for carnal purposes by means of the black arts.”
Kristen:
She was accused of witchcraft, partially because she, multiple times, would put her menstrual blood in her lover’s wine so that she could control his will and she could have his virility. And she did it with multiple lovers. That was just what you did back in the day to bind yourself to someone else. And as I say, in the book, consent in love magic is important these days, so I’m not telling you to go put your fluids in someone else’s beverage without telling them.
August (narration):
If you asked a lover for permission, however, and they were onboard, Kristen said that could be fun. Next we explored anointing substances—for which you could use flavored oils, syrup, stimulating lubes, lipstick and body paint. Right off the bat, Kristen thought of flying ointment.
Kristen:
…and that’s historically the psychoactive salve that was made from plants like Henbane, Datura, Belladonna. It can be poisonous or too strong, toxic if ingested orally, so it could be applied vaginally anally and you could still get that same feeling of magical flight which is why they call it flying ointment and there’s some suggestions they applied it with a handle of a staff or maybe a broom. And there we have the connection between witches flying on the broom.
August (narration):
At least that’s one narrative, Kristen said, and it definitely gets my vote. Next we talked about this witchy role-playing accessory:red satin sheets with a black comforter.
Kristen:
That just seems like an awesome contemporary, slutty witch vibe to me. I wish I had red satin sheets. I don’t even know where one would get them, but that is totally on my list.
August:
Okay, what about this one? Adding candles and incense or having sex outside during a full moon?
Kristen:
Ooh, yes to everything. Candles and incense remind me of ritual. They remind me of any witch shop you go to ever, because they all smell like candles and incense.
August:
It’s almost like a craft store, but more natural.
Kristen:
Yes, yes. Earthy craft store.
August:
What about full moon sex? I sleep really well when there’s a full moon and I always get this surge of creativity. And I usually find out later that there was a full moon and people are like, I couldn’t sleep all night.
Kristen:
Oh, that’s interesting. I have a terrible time during the full moon. I always feel sick or anxious and I don’t sleep. But that’s interesting that you sleep because you know, it’s associated with things coming to fruition and bringing things out into the open, you know. You can see the light because literally everything’s lit up. It makes sense why you might be thinking of creative things during that time.
August:
Yeah, and I imagine sex during a full moon, if you are manifesting or if you’re doing some kind of orgasm magic, that’s a good time.
August:
Yes, and the ambience. I mean candlelight and moonlight are just beautiful. So it’s fun, especially if you feel, as so many of us do at times, a little body conscious, just to feel a little more comfortable. Everyone looks so extra beautiful, I think, in that light.
Kristen:
Yeah, and I should note that this Halloween is a full moon. So if you’re planning on sex outside on the full moon, definitely do it on Halloween.
August:
Yes, I love that. So the recommendations here are feathers—I don’t know if feathers really are torturesome, but maybe they could be—nipple clamps, whips, paddles and hot wax.
Kristen:
Interesting.
I’m thinking that they’re thinking of the trials. And it reminds me of the chapter I wrote about the Scottish witch hunts when I visit Edinburgh. I was at the National Museum of Scotland and across the room, and this other exhibit. I couldn’t really see what it was. And I see this spiked collar and I was like, Oh, it looks just like one of mine! My bondage collars, you know, I’ve been wearing since like middle school, that I got at my favorite sex shop. And then I go up closer, and I’m like, oh, you fool. It’s a horrific torture device, used to chain up witches or accused witches.
I think in a way, using those pieces today and having the power to subvert their original intent and usage is kind of cool. Taking control of your own pain and pleasure is something that those accused of witchcraft in the past didn’t have the ability to do. It’s a privilege to use those torture devices as you see fit, right?
August (narration):
Next, I shared three witch-themed role play scenes recommended by Frisky Sexual Fantasies for Kristen to share thoughts on, starting with the one:
“An innocent young witch is being trained to tap into her sexual energy by a wicked warlock. It is forbidden, yet powerful, knowledge that tempts her – she is eager to experience all of his erotic secrets, whatever the out come.”
Kristen:
So that definitely makes me think of the trials. You didn’t often have men and womengetting accused of witchcraft because they were having sex or anything, but I’m sure that happened at some point maybe.
August:
Yeah, people get in trouble. In horror movies, they get killed first if they had sex.
Kristen:
Yes, you definitely get killed if you have sex in the horror movies.
Okay, here’s another one: “You have lowered an innocent male into your haunted layer. He is tied up and struggling but can’t resist the building excitement as you define his purity, you unlock his primal urges and release him from his inhibitions. He is so grateful that he becomes your sexual servant to satisfy all your nasty desires.”
Kristen:
I love that one. It’s pretty historically accurate, because in multiple witch hunting manuals and demonalogical treatises, there’s writing about witches taking over men’s wills and making them their slaves or stealing their penises or forcing them to have sex and bringing them into a devilish compact, renouncing God in Christ in the process. The fear of the seductress is certainly a big one when it comes to historical witch hunting.
August:
And what was the taking of the penis for?
Kristen:
They would just keep it in the box. He’s been bad. Like a chastity device, but they actually just remove the penis.
August:
Wow, that’s intense. No one try that one at home.
Lastly, one we’ll call the the Lusty Virgin:
“You’re a virgin witch who has just discovered a special spell. Lusting for power, you’re willing to sacrifice your virginity to tap into your sexual energy. You conjure up a demon lover (devil, vampire, werewolf) to ravish you and fulfill the ritual. The beast is insatiable as it takes you again and again. The ecstasy you experience is worth the price.”
Kristen:
Oh, that’s good. And that one has some historical underpinnings, too. In the English trials, there’d be a lot of testimonies about the devil coming to different women in the shape of an animal and having sex, and a man, too. Actually in Cat Call, my second book, which we just talked about months ago, there is a story of a man having sex with a devil in the shape of a cat, which I don’t know how that works. But definitely lots of beastly sexuality was tried and true part of the witch hunts.
August (narration):
So if that aroused something in you, it might be fun to try as a roleplay. Because one of the best things about roleplay is that it’s all about fantasy.
Kristen:
Right! It doesn’t matter if it’s wrong or right or historically accurate. Oh my god, can you imagine being such a nerd at roleplay that you want it to be historically accurate? That means… Actually, that’s probably me. [mutual laughter] So never mind.
August:
Oh, my gosh, that would take a lot of work. Probably some travel as well.
Kristen:
Uh huh, definitely. A lot of negotiation.
August:
Yes! All goodthings.
More about Witch Hunt
What do you most hope that readers take away from Witch Hunt?
Kristen:
I hope people are transported and they think about witch hunts in new ways. Because it’s so often a word that’s thrown out by powerful male politicians pretending to be the victims. And really, the people who were the victims of the witch hunts were the most marginalized people oppressed by society at every turn. So I want some education to happen and people read it, but I really hope also to sink into these places and this history and come away with a new view of what a witch hunt actually was and who a witch is.
August:
And how has the whole process impacted you? You went in already knowing so much about these topics, and it sounds like you learned a great deal as well. From the start, it was a very personal mission, in addition to writing for others.
Kristen:
Yeah. I would say this book changed me way more than the first two books, which were more from an academic distance or something. This got really personal and intimate and after my travels, I met so many people energetically and metaphysically and metaphorically. And I met a lot of people in my travels, too, real life people. I came home and was like, I need to change this, this and this about my life… I changed a lot of things, because I was just thinking about how I need to feast gratefully at this imperfect banquet I’ve been given, you know? Like life. It’s some line in the book, I put it somewhere. Because seeing the privileges and the gifts I’ve been able to have in this life, it’s like, damn, I better take advantage. And I know that, we know that, but when you immerse yourself so deeply in these traumatic times of the past, you feel it in a new embodied way.
[acoustic guitar riff]
August (narration):
Find Witch Hunt: A Traveler’s Guide to the Power and Persecution of the Witch most anywhere books are sold. Kristen pointed out that indie stores, in particular, could use support right now. She’s also selling signed copies through her website. She had special bookplates made that match the cover. They’re beautiful.
Beginner’s role-playing tips
To take our role playing fun further, I asked Dr. Megan Fleming to share her top beginner’s tips.
Dr. Megan Fleming:
Just think about it. Who have you always wanted to be? Better yet, think of all the possibilities. All you need for roleplay is your erotic imagination and a sense of humor. Because it’s not uncommon for the first time to feel awkward or silly. I hear that from my clients so often and that’s sort of where it stops. And so what’s really critical is that you get past your self judgment, so you can get to the fun stuff.
There are many ways to experiment. Thinking about core erotic themes and power play and all the different dynamics that you can explore. In the beginning, you might sort of wanna make a commitment for 20 minutes or 30 minutes or an hour, or maybe you start with five or 10 minutes. The whole idea is give yourself an opportunity to sort of throw yourself into the role, knowing that it’s time limited. And that the greatest thing here is you get to be out of characters, things that you would not normally do in playing a character you get to have a ton of fun with.
Some popular ideas include professor and student, stripper and client, cheerleader and football player, royalty and servant, pirate and captive, Warden and prisoner, and—I love this one—virgin and experienced person.
If you’re looking for another place to think about getting some of these sexy costumes, I highly recommend checking out Lovehoney, because they actually have a costumes category and they come in plus sizes, too. So my two reccos are commit to not judging yourself or your partner and have fun.
*****
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