Not-So-Secret, Naughty or Nice, and WTF Blood?! Awkward Sex and Dating Surprises

 

“Not-So-Secret, Naughty or Nice, and WTF Blood?! Awkward Sex and Dating Surprises”

a Girl Boner podcast transcript

August/narration:
Some not-so-secret sex, a guy who might be naughtier than nice, and some mysterious blood on a penis.We’re wrapping the year up Girl Boner-style up with awkward sex and dating surprises – experiences that I bet you’ll relate to or learn from.

Keep listening after the stories for a special bonus. My friend and colleague, Susanna Brisk, a certified sex educator and sexual intuitive, joined me to chat about the stories. We touched on everything from exhibitionism and online dating to self-acceptance and penis size.

*****

First, Emily’s story. Emily Zawadzki, also known as Emily Zed Sex Ed on the internet, is a queer sex educator you may recognize from the recent episode on sex, intimacy and neurodivergence. This story happened when she and her wife, Emily – yes, they’re both named Emily – were engaged.

Emily: This was just one of our fun, spontaneous, kind of spicy times. A lot of our sex is actually very intentional, thoughtful.

I’m a big fan of like scheduling your intimacy. That works well for both my life as well as like with her ADHD as well. But this was not one of those times. This is one of those fun spontaneous times and maybe that’s why it got a little bit funny, too.

August/narration:

The funniness happened during a special trip. They like to plan one every summer.

Emily:  One trip that’s a little bit like bigger, more special, maybe a little bit more expensive than the others.

August/narration:

That summer, they chose a beautiful island cottage. You could only get there by boat.

Emily: It was dog friendly. We have two dogs, so that was fun too, to be able to like bring the dog. So it was a whole like family weekend away kind of thing. And it felt a lot more remote because it was on an island.

August/narration:

Remote enough to take PDA to a whole new level, because there wasn’t any “public” audience to worry about.

Emily: We were up late one night, kind of hanging out. We decided we would go sit on the dock under the stars. So just to kind of like keep our conversation, hanging out going.

And we ended up having a very deep and like cerebral kind of conversation, which for me personally, those can be quite the turn on. Like, I wanna know about your goals, your secrets, your dreams, like tell me everything kind of thing, right?

So we’re chatting and then we’re both getting a little bit turned on and we start kissing and we’re both sitting in these. I don’t know what you call them. In Canada, we call them koka chairs, but I think they’re also called like a rock or Aron. They’re more of like a leaning back kind of chair.

She was on top of me now. We were kissing, making out things were getting a little bit more heated and she began to perform oral sex on me. So I’m leaning back in the chair and she actually had a towel over her head.

We thought we were being super quiet, very discreet. It was late, no one was around. We couldn’t actually see anybody else. But we weren’t as careful as I guess we thought we were because right in the middle of it, a fisherman’s boat went by.

August/narration:

Emily told me she is not an exhibitionist.

Emily: That kink is not really for me. And so I’m kind of freaking out… I’m mortified and I’m kind of frozen. In my head I’m like, if we can see them, they can see me. So I’m like, agh!! So I say, “Emily don’t move and don’t make a sound. There is literally a boat right there.” And of course, what does she do? She tries to l move her head and come out from under the towel and I’m like, no, just wait one minute.

So she does. The boat drives away. I have no idea if they saw anything but we both just broke out in laughter. Honestly, they didn’t come back or try to come in closer. So I think that’s a good thing, right?

August/narration:

Then Emily and her fiancé shifted gears. Get it, like on a boat?

Emily: It did end the sex in that session because we both preoccupied with that.

I embarrass a lot easier than Emily. So I was more feeling embarrassed by it and she just thought it was more hilarious.

I think we ended up playing a game, kind of kept into that fun, playful mood.

August/narration:

The whole ordeal did end up benefitting their sex life in a surprising way.

One thing I took away from that is to lean into the more funnier, sillier, more awkward sides of sex. Because I’m a type A person, I’m a Virgo rising. I love a good plan, love a good routine, and I can get a little bit caught up sometimes in the whole wanting everything to be perfect. So it was a great reminder that even if you plan for it, or you think you’re doing everything perfectly, awkward and unexpected, things can still happen. Especially things that are out of your control.

[acoustic chord riff]

August/narration:

Next up, Dr. Heather Bartos. Heather is a physician, menopause specialist and sex book author. Leading up to her awkward dating surprise, she was in her late-20s and feeling a little lost.

Heather: I was kind of looking for love in all the wrong places.

August/narration:

It was the early 2000s. [upbeat “Counting Sheep Y2K” music]

Heather: So like Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears time and match.com was really the thing. There was no swiping right.

You had to log in and it was kind of my fun thing to do every day my first hour of work was to log in and match.com and see my matches. It was like my wakeup coffee.

August: And were you looking for hook ups, relationships? Did you have a goal in mind?

Heather: I went through a period I think a lot of women do… I always say I was desperado, like I was in the desperado phase. I was like, whatever comes, I’m gonna take it. Whether it’s a hookup, whether it’s dating. I mean I was raised in the generation where I was like, go get married, go get all this.

And I didn’t want that yet, but I was thinking I’d love to have a boyfriend, hold hands through the holidays, get that cute cuddly thing. Because I was a Hallmark girl growing up. That’s what we were raised on.

August/narration:

So she dove into online dating, which was very different than the apps we have today.

Heather: For those that don’t remember match.com, it was all kind of through kind of like an email kind of portal type of thing

They send a little text. It’s kinda like that you’ve got mail movie, right? It’s a little text and it comes through and then you write back and it goes back to them. And I was not a good dater. I was not really taught how to date or how to do this. So I was just kind of flinging it through the air poorly, I might add. And I just would just write back and then I would go do my work and then I’d come back and write back.

And it was fun, right? Flirty. You don’t know what anyone looks like…

August/narration:

She started connecting with a guy there, screenname Kanye. As they chatted, she thought, hmm…

Heather: This person had a good sense of humor, which is super important to me. I just kind of kept talking back and forth thinking, okay, I mean, I was talking with a few people and this, one seemed kind of cool, so I kept going. It was probably a week or so that went back and forth.

August/narration:

Things were getting more cyber-serious. They decided to take the convo offline.

Heather: He was like, do you wanna go out? And I was like, “Sure. That sounds great.”

And he lived in an area of Houston. I lived kinda on one side. He lived on the other side. So I said, you wanna meet up in the middle? He goes, “oh yeah, I can’t drive.” And I said, “oh, okay.”

My mind goes straight to, oh my gosh, has he had a DUI? Like, is that why he can’t drive?

August/narration:

Thankfully, it was nothing nefarious.

Heather: He’s like, “Well, I’d rather tell you over the phone.” And so we start talking on the phone, really nice, lovely voice, nice guy. He’s like, “Well I’m blind.” And I said, ” That’s cool.”

August/narration:

He explained that he had a condition called optic nerve hypoplasia.

Heather: He goes, “So I have to see things like really close up but I do ride a bike. So I guess he, he could see things if they were like a 600 point font.

August/narration:

The lengthy drives for Heather weren’t convenient, but they seemed worth it.

Heather: Maybe he’s the love of my life. Who knows?

August/narration:

Kanye planned the date.

Heather: He wanted to go to this local Chinese restaurant, and so I pick him up at his house. And you know, I thought he was a nice person.

August/narration: Kanye thought so, too.

Heather: That was his big shtick. He’s like, “I’m just a really nice guy. I love, I love just being a nice person. I love to take care of people.” And that was really attractive at that moment.

August/narration:

Heather spent the night at his house a couple times.

Heather: We didn’t really go the whole distance. ‘ But he was real slow to move anything physical.

August/narration:

Slower than Heather wanted, but she rolled with it. Relationships take compromise, right? Meanwhile, his schtick kept on.

Heather: That’s what he kept telling me: “I’m a nice guy. I’m a nice guy.” So I thought, okay.

One night, I woke up and he was singing Phantom of the Opera to me while I am sleeping. And I’m like, okay, this is now getting strange.

August: Did you have like a musical theater conversation or something?

Heather:  We must have. And I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the original movie Highlander. There’s this scene where she dies and he says like, “Goodnight my Bonnie Heather,” in this Scottish accent. So he started saying that to me every night, like, “Good night my Bonnie Heather.” And I was like, okay, this is getting cringey.

August/narration:

But it can be hard, especially in your 20s or when you’re feeling desperate, to recognize or talk about those things. Especially when you don’t wanna hurt someone’s feelings.

Heather wanted to be loved, she said. So even when did things that just were not her jam, she kept seeing him.

Soon, though, Heather realized Kanye was not as nice as he claimed to be. Maybe someone telling you how nice they are over and over is a red flag? Basically she found out that:

Heather:

He was having an affair with his next door neighbor who had just had a baby six weeks prior and she called me. And then I had another woman that called me that said that she was having sex with him at the same time.

I go, wait, what? I’m so confused. And I was really actually happy that we didn’t have sex.

August/narration:

Heather’s heated confusion made speaking up easier. She confronted Kanye.

Heather: I go, “You’re an asshole. You’re not a nice guy at all. You’re like a dick.” He’s like, “no, I’m the nice guy.” I’m like, “What about that lady’s husband and she’s got a new baby?” I mean, it just was a whole shit show.

August/narration:

And no, these weren’t open relationship or poly situations. There were no relationship agreements that said multiple partners, including one who was married and pregnant, was okay. Kanye knew what Heather wanted ultimately.

Heather: I was really open to finding a relationship with somebody that I thought would be amazing.

August/narration:

Later, she could see that she probably ignored red flags, and had acted on impulse versus thinking things through.

Usually when Heather appears on podcasts, she’s sharing things like sexual health or menopause tips — so I really appreciated that she got vulnerable for us all here. Twice, actually. You may recall her appearance from 2022 about her sexual discovery journey. So when her dating story brought me back to one of my own online dating surprises it seemed only fair I share it.

August: Oh my gosh, because you’ve been so open with me and I know it’s not like your norm, can I tell you a super short story that’s really embarrassing that I did?

August/narration: She was like “Um, yes, please.”

August: So I had an experience where I was new on AOL Love, which was just the chatting online. I started chatting with this guy and we had arranged to have a date. It was gonna be Halloween day. And I cringe just even thinking I did this, I just don’t kmow who I was then. I gave him my address to pick me up. I’ve never met this person, right? But I just give him my address on the internet.

He then showed up a whole day early. I was like in my pajamas. My hair was a mess, my apartment was a mess. He just knocks on the door and he’s holding flowers. And he was like dressed up. Had this like charming look on his face and I was horrified.

Another thing that I still can’t believe I did, it’s just like sometimes it’s out of body when you’re that age and you’re so insecure and you’re just, as you said, a little desperate. I was like, “Come on in.” He comes in, he sits on my futon. He isn’t saying anything.

So I just start kissing him. I don’t know why. We just like made out and we made out and then he just gets up and he leaves. The next day, presumably we’re gonna go on a date. So then I call my friend Marcy I’m like, this thing just happened.

She’s like, “Wait a minute. This stranger, you gave him your address, he came to your place unexpectedly. You made out, he left. He still has your address. if he’s like a psycho killer?” And I got so freaked out that I slept against my door holding a set of knives and a teddy bear. So there you go.

Heather: I gotta give props to Marcy there because I didn’t even think about that stuff when I was that, you know, I just we stupidly did stuff. Now we would never let a young woman do any of those things at all anymore. And, we wouldn’t let someone drive an hour to go meet someone unless you left like a trail.

“If something happens to me, it’s this person.” Nowadays we’re so careful and, and there was so much to throw caution in the wind… And I’m amazed we all lived actually.

August: I know, I know. We’re very lucky that this is not a Dateline interview. We’re doing good.

August/narration:

Heather shared some advice for anyone who’s been feeling a bit desperate themselves in the dating realm or going through “ a low self-esteem phase,” the kind that’s especially common in your 20s. But it can really happen at any age. It’s when you get into this slump, and feel like…

Heather: …where do I fit in this world? You know, you’re not big in the business world yet you, you’re still finding your feet on everything. And so it’s really easy. I mean, I just think we all need to remember it’s really easy, like you said, to fall into this trap where all of a sudden you’re in this situation that you shouldn’t be.

It’s really easy if you don’t have a good foundation of self-love , and your own pleasure, what you want, you’ll look for it everywhere else but you know yourself. I mean, I have a 15-year-old daughter now, and that’s what I always tell her. I’m like, take care of yourself first. Take care of yourself first.

August: Yes! That’s so key. I was not into self-pleasure yet, and I think that would’ve made a difference. Would I have just thrown myself into making out?

Heather: Yeah. And that’s all they taught us back then was that you take care, pleasure with a partner. And I think teaching the young women, Hey, take pleasure on yourself first, and then maybe you won’t be so desperate like we were. Oh my gosh.

August: 100%.

August/narration:

So what happens when you’re getting busy and your body does something you really were not expecting? And not in a fun way.

Our last story featues Sarah Fader. Sarah describes herself as a writer, podcast host, mom, cat mom, and all around ADHD human. Her awkward sex surprise happened after online dating, too – modern dating app style.

Sarah: So I had just gotten out of a friends with benefits situation and my Hairstylist was like, “You should go on Hinge.” And I am not an app person. I’ve tried dating apps in the past, and I have not had luck but she insisted that Hinge was different. So I thought, okay, why not?

So I went on Hinge and I kind of liked it because it’s different than say, OkCupid or match.com because it feels like dating Mad Libs. It asks you these prompts and you get to say whatever it is that you’re thinking, like, oh, dating me is like, and I distinctly remember that one. It was like “Dating me is like a rollercoaster because you never know what what’s gonna happen next.”

I’m not very good at being passive, and if I think a guy is cute, I’m gonna say something. So I saw this guy, I was like, oh, he is cute. I asked for Hinge to send me younger guys because I tend to get along with guys that are younger than me. Maybe it’s my immaturity, I don’t know. So this guy was cute and then I messaged him.

August/narration:

We’ll call him Wally.

Sarah: So one of the pictures that he had was his cat, I immediately was like, alright, well he’s a cat person so he’s gotta be cool.

I see Wally’s profile. I see Wally has a cat, but I actually didn’t pay attention to what Wally’s name was because I thought, here’s this dude’s profile, and it looked like his cat’s name was Wally .

So I see this, this adorable cat, and I’m a sucker for tuxedo cats. So I said in the into my message to to Wally, I love you, Wally, thinking I’m flirting with the cat

So he then says, “Well, that was very forward.” ‘Cause he thinks, I’m telling him I love him, right? And I was like, “Oh no, I was talking about your cat.” But what a great opener, because it was such an awkward situation where I’m like. I’m completely in love with you. I just met you. “No, no, I was just saying how I love your cat.”

August/narration:

He took that well and seemed awesome.

Sarah: So then, again, because I’m an assertive, domineering woman. Let’s not, let’s not call me domineering, assertive, let’s call me assertive. Sex positive. So I messaged him, do you wanna meet up at this diner and have coffee?

Because in my mind, too, part of what I wanted to do was like, work through my feelings about this, friends with benefits situation and like get on with things. Like, okay, let me just try to have fun because I’m a serial monogamist. I’m not like a dater. So I’m thinking, why don’t I just go on a date ?

So I met up with him at this diner. I’m really bad with small talk. So, he is, you know, feeling clearly awkward. He buys me coffee and pancakes. And he just doesn’t know what to say, you know? And so I’m like, ‘Well, let me just tell you my life story.”

So I start talking about like my depression and like how bad I am with money and like all, like all this stuff, right? But it actually helped him be vulnerable about his stuff. You know, and I won’t share like what he said, but he, did open up to me and so we kind of had a moment and then I was like, “I had a really good time!” And he’s like, “Me too.”

I was actually in the process of like moving into my apartment and he suggested getting some furniture at the Habitat for Humanity store. And he’s kind of like a handy person, so he’s like, “Just go get a bed frame at pay like $50 for it”. So I was like, “All right, cool.”

So I met him at the store. And then I was like, well, it’s near his house. I’m thinking he’s gonna invite me over. But he’s like, alright, well we got the bed frame, so see you later.! I was like, “I thought we were gonna hang out.” And he’s like, “oh , I didn’t realize that that’s what you wanted to do.”

So I went home and then he texted me and he’s like, “So wanna come over tonight?” I’m like, dude, I was just there. Why didn’t we, why didn’t we hang out when I was just there?  I said, “Yeah, sure. What do you wanna do?

And he’s like, “Want to come meet my cats?” And I was like, “Well, of course. That’s a no brainer.”

August: I’ve already professed my love.

Sarah: I’ve already professed my love to your cat. So. I went over and then we were watching, his favorite series, a thriller type series, but also funny. And I’m not even sure that he’s into me. So I say, “Can I lay on you?”

He’s like, “Yeah, sure, come on over.” So I lay in his lap. And then I’m like, “I kind of wanna get on top of you.” And he’s like, ” I think we should wait. ” And I was like, “Okay.”

August/narration:

Sarah totally respected that. But she also wondered if he was giving friend vibes and didn’t want anything romantic with her. So she asked him.

Sarah: “Do you even find me attractive? Do you like me like that?

And this was actually really romantic. He’s like, “Hey.” And he like turns to me, takes my face and kisses me. And I was like, okay, that was a really good kiss. and then I sat up. He’s like, I mean, “I do wanna fuck you.”

So we go upstairs to his room. It was kind of awkward. We’re both taking our clothes off. I did not anticipate having sex. So I’m wearing a really boring sports bra and thank God, not granny panties. I had nice underwear on, but I’m like, no! My boobs could look so much better. I’m wearing such a boring bra. So disappointing.

I also was kind of self-conscious about my body ’cause I felt like I had gained weight. But I’m thinking, okay, well he’s attracted to me so he made out with me, obviously he’s into me. So, cool.

We both get naked and then, I get on top of him. There’s like dirty talk. It’s going well. I’m feeling it. And then, I came. And then I was like, okay, “Do you wanna do me from behind?” And he’s like, “Yeah.”

He’s like, “How’d you know that?” I’m like, I know things.” So he gets behind me. I’m thinking like he’s going to start having sex with me from behind and then there’s silence. And I’m like, what’s going on? This is so awkward. And he’s like, “um, you’re bleeding.” And I was like, “oh.” And then I turn around and there’s like blood on his penis and I’m like, what the hell?

And I’m thinking, this is not my period. It can’t be like, I’m not expecting my period. And at the time I had an IUD, so I was thinking, well, maybe it’s like spotting, like I, I don’t know what it is. And I was like, oh. And so that definitely killed the mood for me. I just laid on him.

But I’m very embarrassed because I’m thinking I just hung out with this guy for like the second time and then I bled on his penis. And he was cool about it. It wasn’t like he was judgmental or anything. I just felt embarrassed because I wasn’t expecting to spot. And I was really confused.

We laid on each other, then we went down and watched more like Paramount Plus and then, I left and he texted me, “Thanks for the sex. Ha ha ha.” And I’m like, wow, that’s really weird.

August: What does that mean?

Sarah: I don’t know. And I don’t even know if this had anything to do with it, but like, I felt bad because he didn’t come. I came and then bled on his penis, then left. It was so awkward.

Right? And then eventually. It didn’t work out for a variety of reasons, but he said something really interesting to me. He was like, “You know, when we had sex, that’s not the experience I wanted to have with you. I wanted it to be more intimate.” I mean, and maybe it was because I was trying to force myself to get over someone, that whole expression, you can get over someone if you get underneath someone else. It was like that, but I wasn’t using him in that way. I think I was thinking I wanted to just date around.

August: Do you think it was because it was cut short? And you felt uncomfortable?

Sarah: I think that he probably sensed that it was too soon.

August/narration:

Too soon to have sex when they did.

Sarah: ‘Cause he said, “I wanna get to know you more.”

August/narration:

Sarah eventually figured out what caused her to bleed on Wally’s penis.

Sarah: I was traumatized by this whole thing where I had bled on him and I was like, I think I wanna get my IUD out. And it wasn’t just that, it’s it really, it caused heavy bleeding ’cause I had the para guard. So I went to my OB/GYN. They’re actually midwives and they’re awesome.

August/narration:

This came after some wonky experiences with other gynecologists and midwives, she said, including one who didn’t seem to respect her anxiety about a procedure she had.

Sarah: So I went to this new OB/GYN, and they were like, “Would you like a heating pad while we take your IUD out? Do you wanna feel a tens unit? You know, sometimes that helps people feel pleasantly distracted.” I was like, “Oh my God, am I at a spa or something? This is crazy.”

But she’s taking the IUD out and I was like, you know what, I’m gonna ask her this question about my spotting because I’m getting the IUD out. She’s a very open person. I feel like I can actually talk to her about something real.

She was asking me about sexual history. And at that point I wasn’t dating this guy anymore. It was a very, very brief rendezvous. But she asked me, “Are you sexually active?” And I said, “No, but I do have a question for you. I recently had sex with someone and I bled on their penis and I’m wondering why.” And I said, “it wasn’t my period and could it have been spotting or,” and she said, “Was he well endowed? Did he have, did he have a large penis?” And I was like, “Yeah.” And she’s like, “That could cause it, because if you have a large penis and it hits the cervix in a way that can cause spotting.”

I think what I took away from that doctor’s appointment is I felt kind of like, okay, well now I have an answer. I felt a sense of relief because I think as women we tend to blame ourselves for things that aren’t our fault. And I think this was almost an example of that. I’m thinking, oh, it’s something hormonal. I’m thinking it has to do with my body and it’s actually his penis.

August/narration:

Now, my conversation with Susanna Brisk about these stories.

August: So what did you think? What was your first impression of that first story? Emily and Emily with the boat?

Susanna: I have to tell you, my first impression was missed I don’t dispute the fact that she’s not a Emily one. The receiving Emily as opposed to giving Emily is not an exhibitionist.

And I’ll tell you what else I think is really interesting

is that I had a client once who felt she was an exhibitionist and then she got a real who started doing things to her on the in the front seat of her car. She was passenger, he was driving. And saying like, “Oh, the truck drivers can see you.” And she found out very quickly that she was not the exhibitionist that she thought she was because it was like, oh, this is a little too real. But what about bored and ignored?

August: Ooh, tell us more about what you mean by that.

Susanna: So the bored and ignored kink is kind of adjacent to the free use kink in the sense that the person who is whatever kind of pleasure they’re receiving, is bored, slightly disinterested, neutral, or even a little bit irritated.

And this is an energy that can be really effective, whether someone uh, into the power aspects of it or not. I mean, this can be done with kind of a neutral power dynamic because just being ignored is the thing that like gets you off. But it can be about I can do whatever I want to the person. Which again, then it, then it ventures more into free use, doesn’t it?

Because free use is to articulate is when you make yourself for whatever kind of use that partner or some of their closest friends.

August: And a couple fishermen.

Susanna: Boy, this escalated quickly.

Free use very specific kink. If you’re talking to someone, they’re like, “I just have a free use thing, but only for fishermen.” These women were lesbians regardless. But the idea of continuing to do it under the blanket and her just sitting and just being completely neutral and pretending that it’s not happening and not responding too much could have been really hot.

August: Ooh, like stealthy.

Susanna: Stealth head.

August: Ooh, yeah. When you really have to be super quiet, like someone’s in the next room. Or I’ve seen folks online talking about ‘have you ever had sex at your in-laws’ place?’ You know, because the holidays are coming up and some people do. And some people are very not into it, but the ones who do. I bet that’s part of the draw, right?

Susanna: Absolutely. What’s interesting is that some people cannot have sex if there is even another creature breathing in the house. I had a partner years and years and years ago who could never, if we were staying at his parents’ house for Christmas, it was just not gonna happen.

I was like, “There’s like a locked door between.” But some people just have that. So, you know, we’re not here to shame people who can’t concentrate when there’s a fisherman or an in-law in the vicinity.

August: Shall we go on to Naughty or Nice?

Susanna: Yes, please.

August: So Heather, Dr. Heather Bartos, started dating this guy and sort of just kind of settled for staying in it though she wasn’t fully in it. And then he turned out to be a bit of a philanderer. What struck you about Heather’s experience?

Susanna: Well, there were two things. The first is that the dating style that she was following, I call that the throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks dating style, which is when you don’t have any kind of conscious sense of what you’re available for, what you’re looking for, what you like, what you don’t like, and you know, there’s nothing wrong with it.

And we all start with the spaghetti style because when we’re younger, you know, or you know, if you start experimenting in your teens, which is perfectly normal, of course, that’s much more of a, oh, I guess they like me. Okay, well I guess I like them too. And then you just go for it.

But as we get older, we really do hope that there’s more intentionality and we’re clear on what we’re looking for. And to me that says, again, it’s energetically, it’s as soon as you get on a date, as soon as you sit with that person, you go, what do I feel in my body? What’s happening in my body right now and what’s happening in my energetic body right now? And that is everything. That’s going to tell you everything.

And there’s also a problem with checklist dating, which is when you have an excessive number of boxes that you’re trying to tick that have to do with what a person makes money-wise, what they’re wearing, where they live, and things that which are not necessarily going to tide you over in a long relationship.So wanna try to be intentional, but again, from an energy place.

I remember I had this client in the Caribbean. And I said “So what are you looking for?” And she goes, “Well, he has to make $200,000 a year.” And I said, “Okay, okay. What about $199,000 a year?” And she was like, “Oh yeah, that’d be okay.” And I go, “What about one…?”

And I kept moving down because I was trying to get her to understand that nothing was actually changing other than what she was really looking for, which is security, adventure, and excitement. She wanted to be able to get up and travel with somebody. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that particular income.

I think this plays into Dr. Bartos, her kind of pre-assumption about this guy, was kind of ableist but in the other direction. It’s like she assumed because he was blind, that that meant he was a good person also, he kept telling her.

August: Right

Susanna: So there you go. Disabled people can be villains too.

August: Yeah, they’re human beings like the rest of us.

Susanna: Well, like we are, I mean, I’m disabled. You just can’t see it. It’s just in invisible disabilities, which are sometimes even more difficult to deal with because you’re expected to conform to some kind of allo-normative and other standards.

There’s a lot of variation, and that’s why we don’t say normal. Whatever you’re into is fine.

August/narration:

As long as, Susanna noted, you don’t harm anyone.

August:

We don’t have to touch on the one I just blurted out, but we certainly can if you want.

Susanna: Oh yeah.

August: Okay. Feel free. What did you think of my, my impromptu makeout with a possible psycho?

Susanna: Your Halloween story freaked me out. Also, I get it. And I’ll tell you what, I have some clients that I tell to send me their address now. I say, “If you don’t have anybody else, send it to me.” I mean, we’ve all driven an hour for dick. Or at least I have. And now it’s so easy to, you can just share your location.

August: Oh totally. This is before cell phones. I mean, I think that there was this almost naivete of so many of us using, I don’t know if you used any of the early, like dialup matchy, AOL lovey…

Susanna: I was married through that time, so no. So when I started my tramp age, I hadn’t even sexted anybody really.

So it was a really interesting learning curve, but I’m really glad that I did it at a mature age. ’cause I think if I had been you know, swiping when I was 20 or 18, I can’t even think what I could have gotten up to.

August: You and me both. I think I felt like cause we chatted so much online, like for hours and hours, I really thought I know this person so well and this person knows me so well and it’s a very different dynamic. Do you still find that with people when they’re spending a lot of time on the apps, for example, before they meet?

Susanna: For sure. Somebody I know is a young, a young man, well, he’s like 30 and he had a very, very intense two month texting relationship with this woman who was a model. They texted and texted and then they finally met up and they ended up just watching a movie, but literally nothing to say to each other because texting is a different energy. It comes from a certain particular mind space, and you can’t feel necessarily what’s going on with the other person.

I always wanna tell people dating, “You don’t know this person.” Even though I have to say that I’ve had the experience of messaging for the first time feeling like that person could already sense me and I could sense them, and I am married to that person, but that’s not a common phenomenon to be able to sense like that, most often it is projection. You’re hearing what you wanna hear. You are connecting because you are able to connect in that way.

And so you’ll connect that way in with somebody else if it doesn’t work out with this person. But be practical, and please just share your address. Share your address, with someone who’s not gonna slut shame you.

August: Right. And then meet somebody in a neutral location if you can. I mean, there’s so many things can do to stay reasonably safe for sure.

I’m just gonna just drop a seed here that there’s a lot more to my story. and if folks wanna guess what happens, then I will bring you back and we will discuss. How does that sound?

Susanna: That sounds titillating.

August: It’s, kind of a long and windy story actually. No violence. It just was a very unique experience. I think at a vulnerable time in my life, too, and those things can really pair up.

Susanna: Very much so.

August: Speaking of which, I think our next story, Sarah, was also in a bit of a vulnerable place because she was coming out of a relationship. And she was trying to get out there again and, maybe heal some heartbreak. What did you think of Sarah’s blood story?

Susanna: I have to tell you, it really took me back. When I lived in Malibu I had a friend who seemed like kind of a wild woman. You know, she made a lot of dirty jokes and she seemed pretty comfortable, with herself, but she told me this story once and it kind of shocked me. She said she went to this guy’s house.

She had sex with him. She was really drunk, and she woke up and everything was covered in blood. The sheets were covered in blood. She had gotten her period and not realized because it was all in the dark, and she literally took her clothes and snuck out of his house.

August: Wait. Was he asleep still?

Susanna: He was asleep! And she was so embarrassed.

She was mortified. She was ashamed. And it was even before I was in this line of work, and I still was like, ” girl, he should be so lucky as to have your fluids all over his house. Like, please do not do that to yourself. Don’t do the work of the patriarchy for them, for God’s sake.”

But I think it’s really common. a lot of women have issues with their fluids of all kinds. You know, discharge. Like, oh, if it’s creamy, like God forbid she’s creamy, like let her be creamy, you know?

August: Right. If she doesn’t smell like a flower,

Susanna: not supposed to smell like a flower. She’s supposed to smell like a vulva.

August: I mean, come and ejaculate, they all have natural smells. We only sell special juices and sprays and perfumes for people with vulva juice.

Susanna: Right, exactly. And so it, it really does speak to that and also this idea that, a guy’s penis is hitting her cervix. There’s not enough sex ed for her to go, oh, his penis is hitting my cervix. And that feels, how? How does that feel to me? Do I like that? Do I want more of that? What position was that where he hit the cervix?

I personally know someone who had to have their IUD taken out because it was just hitting it and it was painful and it just didn’t work. And so I think it really depends on your physiology. But it’s just so tragic that so many of us don’t know what’s going on in there.

August: It’s so true. And then the default is this shame and that there’s something wrong with us. And how embarrassing. as you said, it’s a very intimate experience and that is an elevated experience. It doesn’t make it bad.

Susanna: Yeah.

Well, I do think, that the future generation of women, I mean, first of all, these millennials. Unstoppable. The Generation Z girls, they’re unstoppable. So I think that this is all going to come out in the wash, so to speak.

I think a great example of it is when you had a blemish in the nineties, God forbid you should stay home. And now they just stick a shiny star over it. And go, here’s my zit, it’s under here, I’m treating it. It really speaks to increasing confidence of young women and much more of the likelihood of being less freaked out about normal things.

August/narration: 

There’s a lot we can all do to have awkward experiences during sex, dating, and intimacy, and still have a great time. I asked Susanna for her top tips.

August: I mean, we all have awkward experiences during sex. What is your top advice for folks. I know it’s so different based on the person, but especially tied into what you specialize in, like being aware of your body and and trusting your intuition?

Susanna: I think what’s really important is embodiment, whatever that looks like to you. And if you truly are at home inside yourself, then you will know. You don’t even have to question. There will be a knowing that says, my energetic body does not care about the size or shape or smell of my physical body. It just wants to be home with me.

And that will lead to less pathologizing things that are natural. And I’m not even talking about self-love, I’m talking about self neutrality cause you can’t really get to a self-love from self disgust. You gotta get through the middle part, which is just I am. I exist and I’m allowed to exist.

And also in terms of sex being awkward, yes, sex can be really awkward. So you gotta lean in because it’s awkward for everybody. There’s nobody that is not at some point going to be awkward for. So you may as well lean in, laugh, and find the connection in being able to be real about it and honest about it as opposed to hoping the other person didn’t see your errant whatever it is you don’t want them to see.

August/narration:

She brought up a rapper.

Susanna: Kendrick, you know, “show me some stretch marks.” you’re also underestimating if we’re talking about, cis men here and hetero relationships, how much A lot of guys would love to see those imperfections.

They’re like, it makes you hot. It makes you special if you can see those things in yourself and embrace those things in yourself.

August: Yeah. So beautifully said. And I feel like cis-men also have a lot of shame and insecurity about their bodies and aren’t allowed to talk about them. So like the macho thing, they have to keep up. I imagine there’s a sense of permission there too. Like, I can be a real person if you’re also a real person.

Susanna: Yeah, it, it makes me think of, more than one client that I’ve had that said that they do not want to let their wife see their penis soft. And that’s like. incredible to think about. You really need , some kind of a size on every day. I mean, it’s like the things that we invent for ourselves. Well, I don’t want ’em to see my boobs this way, but this way is okay.

But yeah, this is a common thing. In fact, I just saw a really fantastic movie called, Sorry Baby.

August: I just thought of it as you were saying that.

Susanna: Your audience should really see this movie. It is made by this young. also some kind of a xillenial woman and it’s just so well done. And anyway, there’s a fantastic scene in that that relates to this idea of being able to look at a soft penis and just be like, okay,

August: It’s so true. That scene was really powerful. You made me think of also, I interviewed a guy years ago he was the contestant and won the small penis pageant, in New York, I believe.

That was the first time, when he was talking about insecurity about penis size, that I realized that a lot of folks, when they’re talking about their small quote unquote penis, they’re talking about it when it’s flaccid. that just blew my mind because I thought, I don’t know anybody who does not have a penis, who’s thinking, wow, I hope he has a really huge flaccid penis.

It’s just not a thing. It’s like ‘my penis is not valuable to anyone unless it’s rock hard and gigantic.’

Susanna: Yeah. That’s it. That’s the thought process. Resting penis face. Let them rest.

August: Did you make that up or is that a thing?

Susanna: I just made that up. [laughs] But, you know, the flip side of these men who are afraid they’re too small is that, you know, I have one client who has a tiny little vagina, and her biggest issue when she sees a guy, Oh God, now it’s gonna be too big.

August: Yes. And just as in Sarah’s example, she has a sense that the size of this person’s penis was a big part of the reason that she had some blood, right?

I remember a woman, years ago when I was living in Minnesota, she wanted to set me up with a guy who she happened to know had a very large penis, and she’s like, you’ll just really need to take Advil beforehand.

I didn’t know if that was something that sounded appealing to me. No offense to folks who have a very large penis . That is not something we think about or hear about when you hear large penis. It’s like, hallelujah. That’s the cultural idea, right?

nothing gets better than that. She was like, “Yeah, it took a long time to fit it in. And then I had to use ice packs.” I mean, the way she described it sounded so painful that I was like, why are you recommending this for me?

Susanna: But it’s a fetish. See the size, Queens are size queens and they’re in their own category. I really see that as being a fetish because the majority of of women that I’ve ever met and worked with and spoken to, which is thousands of women, are not so obsessed with, penis size.

They’re just not. And pre-medicating. You got a pre-game with Advil? I mean, the other thing is how long are you spending arousing her, making sure that she’s open, making sure she’s ready. those things are so much more important really than the size.

There are anatomical considerations sometimes, but most of the time it’s just about a little something called foreplay.

August: Yeah. How are we using these parts that we have?

Susanna: Oh, absolutely. And that’s again where energy comes in and why I am so interested in that. It’s because you might go through periods of your life where physical penetration is not possible. So what are you gonna do then to keep the energy going? And I don’t mean necessarily cuddling or eye gazing or handholding or the things that sex therapists often suggest.

I mean like kinky stuff. That’s why the energy is what’s so important not to rely on always. Oh, it’s gotta be that big giant, you know, I had a couple once, and that was like their urging on tactic where she loved telling him how well endowed he was, and he loved hearing it, and it worked perfectly.

a lot of the time it’s just more ways for people to discredit themselves and more ways to be sold the solution. That’s why men do these elongation surgeries, penis surgeries, and also the Ilizarov where they can add a few inches. This is all just to sell you stuff.

‘Cause if you’re okay the way you are, then you don’t have to, inject your face in your twenties. Again, no judgment, you know, I know a lot of the girls are doing that and, guys too, probably, but it’s not necessary. A lot of it is capitalism.

August: 100%. Yeah. They want us to not like how we. Look how our bodies behave. It’s a huge multi-billion dollar industry working against us. Makes me sad that

There’s that pressure on people. the flip side of that, that you’re talking about with energy is that the challenges that we face can turn into the most creative, expanding experiences. For a long time, I didn’t know about sex beyond, making out an intercourse like that was just the thing I did, and I, I really enjoyed it. And then if you never consider anything else, and then suddenly you have vaginal dryness or someone is having performance anxiety

Susanna: Or someone has cancer for god’s sake.

August: Yeah. None us are gonna be able to function in this quote unquote, desired or sold to us, desired way forever. None of us are.

Susanna: the way that I put it, which is in the book as well, is you have willingness and capacity. And willingness is the most important thing because capacity varies wildly throughout a lifetime. So what is the function of getting your needs met?

And you have the willingness, you’ll find ways.

August/narration:

That book Susanna mentioned is her second. And it’s about to hit the shelves.

Susanna: The book is called Sexual Intuition: A Sexual Intuitive’s Guide to Trusting Your Turn On.

So it’s very much about putting you in your own center. So you wanna give, you wanna receive, you wanna get your needs met. All of that is a function of you being in your own center.

You’re asexual, you’re gray sexual, any of those things. You still have to be in your own center to find that out. And so if you asked me what is the biggest sex problem I see in couples, individuals, anybody I coach, and it’s being externally. We have to be self-led, and we have to be self-centered in the sense that where else should your center be?

How are you gonna get your needs met if you don’t know what they are? Or you’re afraid to articulate them because you don’t afraid of how they’re going to be received? It’s all about centering yourself and then. You can play.

August/narration:

I had the pleasure of reading an early copy and love how encouraging and readable it is, and the awesome diagrams. Susanna designed those.

Susanna: I just love a diagram. I love a visual representation.

August/narration:

The book also features client histories.

Susanna: Of course, they’re very disguised and amalgamated.

August/narration:

Susanna shares some of her own experience, too.

Susanna: To the extent that it’s helpful. To understand that like I’m not coming from. You know, I read this in a book and now I’m gonna stand here and be the expert, and you don’t know anything. So listen to me. I’m the guru. I am completely the opposite of that, which is that you are the guru, you are the expert. And do not let anyone or anything tell you that you don’t know because you do know. And, you’ll know more. You’ll know more after you read my book. Was that smooth?

August/narration:

Order Sexual Intuition: A Sexual Intuitive’s Guide to Trusting Your Turn On using the direct link in the show notes. Or find it on Amazon by searching the full title.

There, you’ll also learn more from this episode’s storytellers.

Emily Zawadzki recently finished her sexuality coaching certificate, which was two years in the works.

Emily: And so I am currently now accepting new coaching clients, so if you are a neuro queerer cutie, a. saphic someone or a curious kinkster, or maybe even all of the above, I might be the coach for you.

August/narration:

Learn more at emilyzedsexed.com or book a free discovery call.

To learn more from Dr. Heather Bartos’, check out her new book, Quickies: One Hundred Little Lessons for Living Sexily Ever After in Midlife, most anywhere books are sold. She wrote it with mid-life women in mind, and she aimed to make it accessible for people of all genders, including nonbinary people and men. In fact…

Heather: Men are buying it like they used to read your Cosmo when they would come to your dorm room and they’d pick up your Cosmo while you were getting ready.

Because they wanna know they don’t have a book like this for them. And I think it’s been really fun to see.

August/narration:

I love how easy it Quickies to flip through and how upbeat and fun it is.

Dr. Bartos: This is supposed to be bite size. It’s quick little tidbit so you can kind of. Read one and move on.

August/narration:

Sarah Faders latest book is a new adult novel called Mind Sex.

Sarah: It takes place in the eighties. And it’s about this guy Trent, who’s this science nerd, and he’s living in the small town in Texas. And so he goes to Atri University, He meets this really unique girl. Her name is Violet. And even though she Believes in God, very faithful, she has a, rebellious side to her. There is a vampire fraternity notorious for manipulating people with their minds,

It brings up an interesting conversation about consent. It definitely has some humorous moments. The vampires sustain their energy by eating cucumbers that are filled with blood. which is quite obviously a phallic analogy.

August/narration:

But most of all, she said:

Sarah: It is about embracing your sexuality in a healthy way and not allowing someone to manipulate or control you because you’ve got the power to be sexual in the way you want to be sexual. You should not let anybody manipulate you to do what they want.

August/narration:

Mind Sex is available on Amazon and Audible.

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I can’t wait to share more stories with you all next year. As always, thanks so much for listening.