Would Polyamory Save Her Marriage?

 

“Would Polyamory Save Her Marriage?”

a Girl Boner podcast transcript

Courtney (excerpt):

 It felt like mine, like it was me, like this is my time and my arena and nobody gets to touch that or take that away or tell me how I can feel.  It felt super powerful, but then I also was so quick to give my power away because I just wanted to be loved and accepted and seen and desired and all those things I hadn’t been for years.

August/narration:

Courtney Boyer is a relationship coach and author. Early on, she received a lot of purity culture messaging.

Courtney: I grew up in the Evangelical Christian Church where sex was not talked about really. Girls from probably around late elementary school, we started to get treated differently and the things that we were wearing were scrutinized more.

We couldn’t wear spaghetti strap tank tops. Our shorts had to be a certain length. now that we were getting older and joining youth group and like middle school, we had to like wear t-shirts when we would go swimming and the boys didn’t have to cover up, but the girls weren’t allowed to wear bikinis. We had to wear one piece plus a t-shirt over it.

So just a lot of covert messages about our bodies and not necessarily about sex, until definitely later in high school where we had like family life education and, we were basically told that sex is only between a husband and wife, and outside of that is not God’s plan.

And it’s really important that you save yourself. The concept of purity and pure were very heavily emphasized. And anything outside of that was just dirty.

August/narration:

A lot of what she learned about romance in general, she said, came from growing up in the prime Disney era

Courtney: …you know, Aladdin, and Beauty and the Beast, and Cinderella, like all of these beautiful Lion King stories of, these girls being in distress and being rescued and being mistreated and that, boys that mistreat you actually really like you. They just don’t know how to be around a girl or they don’t know what their feelings are so it’s gonna come out in a very angry, mean way.

August/narration:

Girls and women also had to make major sacrifices for love.

Courtney: You know, Belle sacrifices for her dad. These women are constantly abandoning themselves and so that’s something I’m seeing in the media and then it’s something I’m seeing in my life.

My dad passed away, but I had had a great relationship with my parents. You know, my mom was very sacrificial. She put everybody else’s needs before hers. She ate last.

And that’s how all the women prepared the food for all of the family events. And just seeing at church, it was always the women who were doing the Sunday school volunteering and it was only the men in like the leadership roles and the business roles. And the messaging was like, women are this way and men have the power. And I felt drawn to power. I wanted to be a boy for a while, not because I was transgender, but because I knew that that’s how decisions got made. So I was like, oh, I wanna be there because that’s where the big boys play, you know?

August/narration:

The messaging around sex, relationships, and dating impacted Courtney’s sense of self-worth. A heads-up that you’re about to head about her body image challenges, including a thought about self-harm.

Courtney: It was definitely something I super struggled with. Like my body, my boobs were bigger. I had a, curvy but athletic body, but I wasn’t thin. And it was in the nineties where Kate Moss thin was really in. So I really hated my body.

I remember when I was in fifth grade, and I wish somebody would’ve told girls my age back then, but like your body puts on fat to transition you into womanhood. That is normal. That is normal. And I remember being teased for being chubby. And there was one specific night, I can still recall it in my mind, like sitting in my bed and my legs are, are stretched out.

I remember and looking at my thighs, thinking if I just took a knife to the fat right here, I don’t think I would die, would I? Like it wouldn’t hurt that bad, would it? I was 11.

That body hatred, got worse as I got older because I started to have those hormones and desire men and guys my age. And like, oh, but no, that’s bad. So then I realized, oh, I have to disconnect from my body in order to survive and in order to be accepted.

August/narration:

Courtney was in college when she met her now husband, Nate. She writes in-depth about their relationship in her memoir, Opened.

Courtney: We met our sophomore year of college. We went to a small liberal arts Christian college in eastern Washington. He was a pre-med student. I was pre-law and he dated a girl across the hall from me and I thought he was super nerdy and, wasn’t really interested in him at first, but then realized he was funny. And I was like, oh, well he’s smart, too. I found myself really drawn to him.

August/narration:

Courtney had committed to not having sex before marriage. Very quickly, her relationship with Nate challenged that.

Courtney: I was raised where sex before marriage is the worst. You don’t do that. And I remember asking him if he was a virgin. I hate using that word now, but back then, that’s the word I used. I was like, “Oh, well, like you’re a virgin, aren’t you? And he was like, “No.”

And he said it in such a confident, nonchalant way that I was like, why is he not full of shame? Why is he not feeling so embarrassed that he has given this part of himself away? And then I was so angry at God because I was like, I saved myself. I was so self-righteous and now you’re giving me this man I wasn’t worth saving himself for. So it was all these conflicting feelings.

Nate grew up religious, but not like I did. His youth pastor was a lesbian and oh my gosh. You couldn’t be gay in my church either. So the idea of a lesbian pastor was just foreign.

He was confident in his sexual history and that was like, “What’s wrong? Why would you should feel shame for this?” And I think part of it may have motivated me because he had been sexually active. This idea of well, I wanna experience that with him now because these women got to experience that with him and that doesn’t feel fair. So it’s my turn. I deserve this.

August: Yeah. So did you have anticipation? Were you giddy like before the first time?

Courtney: No. Oh my gosh. It was typical and cliche, in a dorm room in college. I was like, “Okay, let’s have sex.” And he was like, “Are you sure?” It was like a game day decision: let’s just do this. I got tired of being the one to say no all the time because I wanted to go further. It just felt really unfair. He had already gotten to do this.

I’m the one that is trying to stop this. And I felt at that point, well, I’ll probably marry him anyways. What’s the difference? So let’s just bang it out.

August: Yeah, and you probably weren’t really connected to your natural desire, I imagine, because it gets pushed down, right?

Courtney: Oh yeah. And it’s so overwhelming. It’s intoxicating, just this loss of control. And then you’re just flooded with guilt, but then you’re in the moment and then I’m feeling self-conscious about my body.

It wasn’t like sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride at all. It was all of these conflicting, tumultuous tidal waves.

August: Yeah. Like the opposite of pleasure.

Courtney: Yes.

August/narration:

Before they had sex for the first time, Nate told her it might hurt a little — and it did. It wasn’t passionate and she the shame she felt after lingered. Still, Courtney believed that God would reward her with a strong sex life once they said “I do.”

August: What did you think would happen with sex once you got married?

Courtney: I think because I had been taught that men were these insatiable, sex hounds that want sex all the time, and that men will never turn you down. And it’s always the woman that’s not interested and like, oh, I have a headache. Like not tonight. I thought he would want me all the time.

I thought that I would have to keep his hands off me. You see it in the media. And that wasn’t my experience.

My husband was married to medicine. Like, that was his wife. I was the mistress. And so I got the leftovers. I was not prepared for that.

August/narration:

She also had no frame of reference, and no one to relate to.

Courtney: Social media wasn’t a thing back then, and so people weren’t talking about it. All of my friends had gotten married pretty young, but none of them married, med students or doctors. So they’re like, “Oh yeah, we have sex all the time.” And they weren’t talking about things like orgasms.

August/narration:

All the more reason the sex she and Nate did have was confusing.

Courtney: I didn’t know my body that well. I didn’t understand why I wasn’t able to have an orgasm through vaginal penetration. I kept thinking well, something’s wrong with me.

I didn’t know how to advocate for my pleasure. I knew that I desired it, but I still felt super embarrassed to be naked in front of him because I felt like my body wasn’t beautiful.

And then the expectation: I thought this was supposed to be amazing. Everybody said in the church, “Sex is so great. Wait till you get married. Save it. It’s this beautiful, wonderful thing that God created.” Were there times where it was ecstatic? Yes. But that was few and far between.

August/narration:

Eventually, Courtney and Nate ventured into an ethical non-monogamy agreement. For a long time, she kept her desires for more than one partner secret — even to herself.

Courtney: I had to suppress that because that’s not what like a good Christian wife and mom did. And that was just not an option. So I thought, okay, I’ll just be better.

I’ll be a better wife, I’ll be a better mom. I’ll do all the things and then he’ll want me, then we’ll be happy. I’ll be happy.

August/narration:

That didn’t work. A few months before the couple’s 17th wedding anniversary, Courtney was working with a life coach and really struggling.

Courtney: I could feel this need for me to like step into my power to be there for my clients and to be a change in the world. There was something standing in my way, like I was so disconnected from something and then I finally was like, okay, my marriage I’m really unhappy in it. But I don’t wanna tear my family apart. And so how can I get my needs met while also keeping my family together and not having my husband have to change? ‘Cause I had been begging him for years: “Can we go to therapy? Can you read this book with me? Can we go on this couple’s retreat?” And it was always, “No, I don’t have time. I’m too busy.” And he had no interest to change ’cause his life was great. He got everything he wanted. And so then finally I just was like, I have to do this or I’m gonna break.

August/narration:

This meaning, change things in the marriage in a big way. While she was curious about non-monogamy, those words didn’t quite come out at first.

Courtney: I think it was in the beginning of our meal, like we’re sitting down in this beautiful restaurant, it’s like 21 stories high and it’s January in Germany. I remember fiddling with my fingers and napkin and just being like, oh my gosh, We have to talk about this.

And one of the things that we do talk about on our anniversary dinner every year we do this like check-in where we go through different categories and like, how are you feeling about how we spend money or how I spend money or like, is there any health goals that you have? So when we started talking about sex, I just said, “What if we had a threesome?” And I didn’t want a threesome.

I didn’t know how to break the ice… Like drop in the non-monogamy bomb. So that was my way of trying to have him feel like he’s a part of this, you know?

He said, you know, “Oh, well with another woman?” And I said, “No.” And he said, well, not with another man. And I was like, “Okay, well then what if we open the marriage? Like, you know, like that’s just the next logical thing then. And he was like, you know, what’s wrong with you?

He was reflecting back to me what I felt inside myself because I had so much shame, just from realizing in general that all of that shame that I had carried from the past of there’s something wrong with my body. There’s something wrong with my mind. There’s something wrong with my spirit. Just for existing being a woman, there’s something wrong with you.

And so he was reflecting that back to me in that moment, which was hard.

August/narration:

Eventually, they did open their marriage — an agreement where Courtney would see other people and Nate would stay monogamous. She said getting to that point was tough.

Courtney: We discussed it for about six months. It was hard. He would get angry and shut down. Later he would tell me, “I would see a light in you come on.” He was like, “There was something about you talking about it and asking about it that I couldn’t deny, and that is why I finally did agree, because I knew that this was something that was special or different or you, needed this journey.”

So we did. We got to that point. It was  a don’t ask, don’t tell situation. He said “Do what you need to do, but I don’t wanna know about it.”  And then two months later I realized I was actually polyamorous.

August/narration:

She said she came to that epiphany during a guided psychedelic mushroom trip.

Courtney: I took several doses of psilocybin. One of the truths that came up at that time was that I wasn’t in love with my husband and that I was polyamorous. after that experience, I shared that with him and said, “These are the things that I’ve realized. And I understand if you wanna walk away from the marriage. It’s gonna be a lot of work for us to get back from this.”

And he said, “Let’s figure it out.”

August: That’s really beautiful. Challenging, I’m sure, for both of you, but also…that feels like love to me.

Courtney: It was. And I think that’s also what he had been contemplating during those six months of us having discussions is, you know, do I wanna stay married to somebody who wants something fundamentally different than what I thought I would have?

August/narration:

 Courtney wrote about a bunch of relationships she had with other men in Opened — including her first boyfriend as a polyamorous woman: Max.

Courtney: This tall, French handsome guy. He was so charming, oh man. It felt so easy with him and I was so shocked with how into me he was. when Nate and I were dating, Nate still prioritized studying and medicine and it always felt like I was competing against that.

With Max it was like, “I just adore you and want to talk to you all the time, and I will drive seven hours just to come meet you.” I was like, okay, that’s amazing. And you wanna book a romantic hotel for us in the woods? Okay. Like, great, this sounds amazing. So I think that I got caught up at first in being adored. And in being admired.

That felt so good. Nate had never really done that with me. He respected me and he loved me, but he never adored me. And that was something that Max did very well.

August/narration:

It wasn’t all breezy with Max. When they started having sex, Courtney had her period, Max was struggling with erection challenges, and their height difference wasn’t totally easy to navigate physically. She left unsure if Max wanted to see her again and wanting a relationship with him. When Nate picked her up afterwards, he was really supportive.

August: What was it like having sex with someone who wasn’t your husband? Did you have to grapple with any mixed feelings or was it very just like freeing?

Courtney: It was freeing. I would say the first couple of times it was such a rush of like, oh my gosh, I’m doing something that like I’m not supposed to be, even though I wasn’t like cheating or anything, but meaning I’m not doing things that society thinks that a married mom of three should be doing at 39, 40 years old. That felt fucking amazing.

It felt like mine, like it was me. Like this is my time and my arena and nobody gets to touch that or take that away or tell me how I can feel. It felt super powerful, but then I also was so quick to give my power away because I just wanted to be loved and accepted and seen and desired and all those things I hadn’t been for years. And so those first few relationships were not healthy because I was so quick to acquiesce my power.

August/narration:

After her first few relationships with other men, Courtney started to gain a deeper self-understanding. And she started advocating for her desires.

Courtney: ​Because I had never done that really in my marriage. I just kind of took whatever I got and if my husband was in the mood to like go down on me, then great. But I would never like necessarily ask him for it ’cause I was too embarrassed.

August/narration:

She said the relationship that most helped her voice her desires was with a guy named Morocco.

Courtney: He lived seven hours from me. So I took a train, I went and spent a weekend with him. This was after about six months of us dating.

We had met before. This was like our second time meeting. And he had shared very explicitly with me that he had been very sexually active, had a lot of sexual partners, would have these like sexcapades basically with these women where they just fucked all weekend and had a great time. And so I was expecting you know, this wild sex God thing. And we walk into his house and I was very sexually charged.

I was super turned on, I was excited. We had sex for the first time and he lasted maybe five minutes. I didn’t come at all. And he didn’t even try. And I was just like, did that just happen? Did I just hallucinate that? And then he apologized. He’s like, “oh my gosh, I’m so sorry. Like I’ve never got off that fast before. I just wanted you so bad.” You know, blah, blah, blah.

Later that evening we had sex again, and it was a little bit longer, but again, he just wasn’t concerned with my pleasure at all. And he had talked such a big game about like, I love going down on women. I love doing this.

So then we had sex one more time, and…nothing. I went to bed so frustrated and I was like, I’m not doing what I did with these other men.

In the morning I got up before him, I had some breakfast and he comes out and he’s like, “Hey babe, how’d you sleep?”

And I was like, “Fine.” And he was like, “Oh, what’s wrong?” And I was like, can we talk about like what happened? Because I’m really frustrated by this.” And he was really, I think, shocked to have me confront him

Confident, unapologetic. “I don’t understand this. I thought I was important to you and I don’t understand why you’re not prioritizing my pleasure.”

And then he came back and said, “Well, because of your job, I feel intimidated by that, and I’ve never had that problem before.”

August/narration:

Courtney was a trained therapist by then.

Courtney: I felt like he was trying to turn it on me, like it was my fault. I didn’t tolerate it.

And that felt really good, to be like, “You came three times and didn’t care if I came at all. I’m not okay with that. Let’s talk about that.” That was really empowering for me.”

August/narration:

Courtney’s had a bunch of relationships through this journey and she’s learned a bit about herself with each one.  Near the end of Opened, she calls polyamory a “catalyst that broke [her and her husband] out of [their] cages.”

Courtney: When I was first looking at writing this book and thinking of titles, the first title I came up with, I think was Opened: How Non-Monogamy Saved My Marriage. I had to sit with that for a long time because I thought, that non-monogamy did save my marriage but it didn’t. Honestly, it transformed it.

It was the catalyst that led my husband to heal his demons, and for me to not abandon myself anymore and to come home to myself. That path was through polyamory for me.

August: That is so beautiful. How did your relationship with your body and your sexuality shift through that from the very beginning where you were like, I don’t know, I’m not in love with my husband. I need something more.

Courtney: Yeah. I was, three and a half years ago, still very much like, oh my gosh, I’m not thin, I’m not skinny enough. I’m not whatever enough, and really kind of taking the breadcrumbs of pleasure. And since then, I will credit a lot of this to dating younger men. It really helped me see myself in a different light.

I remember the first time I matched with a guy who was like 28 and I was 39, and I about died because I was like. must be a glitch in the matrix. There is no way that a 28-year-old that looks like that could be into me and the way that he talked about my body and how the things he saw in me that were attractive, that is a hundred percent when I started to be like,

oh my gosh. We have totally been lied to as women. we’ve been told that we only have this small window and this small mold and there are so many beautiful men out there that appreciate us in all sizes and stages of life. You’re a bunch of fucking liars. And so that was really freeing to be like, oh my gosh, like I am beautiful. And my body is amazing.

That is where I feel now today. I feel really confident in my body. It’s funny. I’ll get insulted on the internet about, oh my gosh, you’re so old looking. And look at your wrinkles or your crow’s feet. And all I say is, thank you. Because aging is a gift.

I’m like, I have earned these lines and these wrinkles and these gray hairs. You cannot shame me [for] aging me. You can fuck right off.

August/narration:

That really spoke to me. I shared a bonus clip on Patreon, if you’d like to hear why.

For now, Courtney wanted to leave you all with this:

Courtney: Sometimes I will sit, like when I’m on a train or a flight, and I did talk about this in the book even like after my kind of disastrous trip to Romania with Poland sitting on the airplane and, and being like, I did this. It was not perfect. It was messy, but like, I made this happen and I think we forget how often we do really cool shit, and we don’t take the time to sit in awe of ourselves.

Just to be like, I’m a bad, I am dangerous. I am a badass… And it doesn’t even have to be crazy things. It’s just like I showed up for myself in this way. I told this person no, I advocated for, whatever. And just sitting there and basking in that awesomeness.

August/narration:

Find Courtney’s book, Opened, most anywhere books are sold — or find a direct link in the show notes. As a coach, Courtney can also help guide you through similar work.

Courtney: I wanna create a space for people of all genders where they feel like they can ask the hard questions about themselves, about life. And they know that those questions are leading them to where they need to go.

One of my goals is to help people to reconnect with their pleasure not just sexual pleasure, but the things that bring them joy and happiness in life, because I truly believe that pleasure is what propels us to our purpose.

August/narration:

If you’re enjoying Girl Boner Radio, I’d love it if you’d text a link to your friends and post a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Thank you so much for listening.