After Her Affairs: Jennifer, Part 2

“After Her Affairs: Jennifer, Part 2”

a Girl Boner podcast transcript

Jennifer: I felt empowered. I felt ready to tackle the world. I felt scared, though. Because while I felt probably more put together and healed from so much that I didn’t even know I needed to heal from. 

At the same time I was terrified because at that point I was coming home to a man that was wanting to divorce me and that there was a lot of difficult conversation ahead of us…and so all of that was heavy on me. But I still felt very empowered because I felt like I was given the tools to properly get through.

August/narration:

That’s Jennifer, a mother of two with a successful career who was on the betrayer side of infidelity in her marriage. If you haven’t yet heard (or read) part one of the story, please hit pause and go back to the latest episode in your feed.

When we left off, Jennifer was returning home to Adam after a very intense 30 days of therapy, where she delved deep into her childhood trauma.

So feeling both empowered and terrified, Jennifer went home. And she started talking with Adam. His stance was immediately clear.

Jennifer: He still was very certain of his decision. There was no possibility of anything other than a divorce. 

I then went into the mode of wanting to do whatever I could to properly heal him because I could tell that I, really, really hurt him this time.

 I wanted to make sure that I did everything I could to help heal him so that he walked away from our marriage, not doubting himself.

August/narration:

She didn’t want Adam to leave thinking he brought on her poor decisions, or that he was the cause of them. So she dove into books and podcasts about infidelity, learning everything she could.

Jennifer: …and how to heal from it, and what he’s feeling, and what to say and what not to say. 

August/narration:

She liked much of what she read and heard, but one book in particular stood out: “Infidelity: the Best Worst Thing that Could Happen to Your Marriage: The Complete Guide on How to Heal from Affairs,” by therapist Dr. Talal Alsaleem, also known as Dr. Talal.

Jennifer: What really attracted me to his staff was how he wasn’t so focused on how to heal from infidelity and get back together. Instead, his context was how to heal separately or together. 

So it really focused on the steps that he talks about that you should go through when discussing infidelity and how to heal from it.

August/narration:

Steps like “making a conscious choice,” “agreeing on the logistics,” anticipating and “seeking professional help,” before making the decision to part ways or stay together. 

The book also covered things like prerequisites for plans of action, whether the plan involves separation or rebuilding. 

That process became Jennifer’s mission.

Jennifer: I refused to accept his determination on going through a divorce unless we go through these steps. 

I know that that sounds selfish because I’m the one who caused everything and how dare I try to be in control of whether or not Adam wants to divorce me. But I just wanted to make sure that we gave it our all before completely accepting that divorce is the best answer. 

August/narration:

That determination led her to Dr. Tala’s website. She also saw that he offers intensive couple’s therapy. After some market research, including at least 10 consultations with various couple’s therapy companies, Dr. Talal’s program remained her first choice. 

She appreciated that Dr. Talal did the consultation himself, unlike other programs. Plus, many programs focused on salvaging a relationship, versus healing two individuals – regardless of the outcome.

Jennifer: So that was my second green flag. Because I knew that was going to be extremely important in me presenting this opportunity to Adam. I didn’t want him to feel like I was trying to get him to go to something to force him to want to be with me again. 

I wanted to make sure that this was something that was ensuring we went through all the proper steps to make the best decision for our marriage, but then also following that, giving us the proper tools to heal individually, so that we could be the best we can be for future relationships.

I just was really worried that I had, somehow tarnished or tainted, you know, his ability to be a great guy to the next relationship he was going to be in. I wanted to make sure that I didn’t hurt him to the point where he couldn’t find love again, as hard as that was. 

August: Oh, I bet. Like, you hope he’ll want to be with you again, but you set that aside to prioritize his healing. And I think that’s really beautiful, especially considering you were on such an intense healing path yourself, so you know what it’s like to go through something traumatic and to find that growth and healing.I love that you wanted that for him because that to me is unconditional love. It’s really powerful. 

Jennifer: Yeah. And it was really important because I think, too, discovering how much I was hurt from how other people treated me, and how that affected choices I made in my adult life, and a lot of those choices not being good ones. 

 It really was important to me to make sure that if we did not, if we did not, um, work things out that, what I had done to him, you know, again, wasn’t, wasn’t going to cause, God awful things for him in the future and,  further down the road, we’re going to have grandchildren, we’re going to have weddings, we’re going to have baby showers, we’re going to have all that in our future and if I’ve damaged this man to the point where he has awful relationships with future women, those women are going to be in my children’s lives. Those women are going to have to sit next to me at these baby showers and these weddings. And I know that sounds silly that I thought that far out, but family is so important to me.

August: I love that you put so much thought and care into finding someone that’s helpful and also, evaluating the big picture. And, it is especially lovely, I think, and meaningful considering, you know what one thing in your life from one particular age, you’ve seen the branches stretch into decades.

I think it’s really amazing that you could to not only do that for yourself, because you’re still doing the healing work, you know, you did your 30 days but you’re still probably working on yourself and to make space for that is so so big. 

August/narration:

Beautiful intentions and all, though, would Adam go for it? 

Jennifer: Presenting the idea to Adam, was a task in itself because any conversation that I attempted to have with him didn’t go well. He’s done and there’s nothing to talk about. And so I wrote him this really long letter just expressing, we’ve got almost 20 years together, I’m not willing to throw it all away without going through these proper steps. I found this great guy. Here’s his book. Please listen to it and Please consider going to California with me. 

 August/narration:

California is where they would work with Dr. Talal. Adam replied:

Jennifer: “Absolutely not. No way.” And I just I begged. I mean, I did everything except drop to my knees. 

August/narration:

And then, a change of heart. Well, almost.

Jennifer: Out of pure anger and frustration, I know that’s all it was, he said, “Fine, I’ll go.” He insisted on talking to Dr. Talal, before we went. He wanted to make sure that what I had said was true and that he was not going to California to try to be talked into staying with me.

He wanted to make it very clear to Dr. Talal his decision was made. He’s done and the only reason he’s agreeing to going is because I was not willing to accept his decision of divorcing me until I knew we had gone through all the proper steps. So he said, “I’m only doing this for her so that she can see that I’m set in my decision and so whatever these steps are, I just want to make it very clear. My mind will not be changing. I’m leaving the same way I’m coming. We’re done. I’m divorcing her.”

Dr. Talal was very kind and reassured him that, yes, his program is not to try to talk anybody into anything they don’t want to do. But, yes, we are going to be doing some deep discovery, diving into certain topics. And, he said, I’ll see you soon. 

August/narration:

So Jennifer and Adam traveled to California for several days of therapy. The intensity surprised even Jennifer.

Jennifer: I thought that the 30 day intense therapy by myself was emotional, oh my goodness, I, I don’t think I’ve cried as much as I did during those three days with Dr. Talal, but it was so healing to talk through things that even I had not realized were going on or not going on in our marriage that was affecting things. 

Then I got scared because I didn’t want at all for it to look like I was looking for things to point my finger at. I was very, very big and I know I sounded like a broken record because I, I said it so many times throughout the whole ordeal of, I take full responsibility for my actions. Nobody held my hands behind my back. Nobody forced me to do anything. I knew what I was doing. I was completely aware of what I was doing. And I’m not at all looking for someone or something to blame my actions on. 

However, there are different things throughout my childhood, throughout my adult life and through our marriage that I’ve discovered does have an impact on some voids and some insecurities and some things that did have a hand in causing me to want and seek out attention from unhealthy areas. Watching Adam go through those difficult conversations with Dr. Talal was tough. 

There were times where I felt like were pointing out some of his shortcomings, some of his flaws in our marriage, and I wasn’t completely sure I felt like that was a good thing to do. I’m the bad person, I’m the one that has done awful things, and never do I want Adam to feel like anything he did or didn’t do, is the cause of this. 

But the way Dr. Talal had us engage, was so beautifully done. It allowed us both to really answer questions we’d never answered before. It allowed us both to identify certain things in our marriage that we hadn’t realized were an issue.

 August/narration:

At the end of three intense days of therapy, the couple reached a crucial moment. 

Jennifer: I think it’s called the decision making day. It’s time for Adam to make his decision and he was still in the mode of, I’m deciding to heal separately. 

And, I just lost it. Even though I had promised myself we’re going to go through these steps, and then I’m willing to accept his decision.But the verbiage he was using in his answers, over and over again, I felt showed uncertainty. He would say things like, “I can’t tell you what the future holds, but this is what I think it’s going to hold.”

August/narration:

And so, Jennifer made one more “desperate attempt,” she said, to potentially save their marriage. She said: 

Jennifer: “I know this is decision day and I want to respect your decision. But, please correct me if I’m wrong, Dr. Talal. I’m hearing uncertainty. I’m hearing he’s not completely 100 percent sure. This is not a small decision. This is life changing.”

August/narration:

Dr. Talal agreed with Jennifer. Then, Adam agreed to taking more time, too. They agreed to take 30 more days to work toward a decision back at home.

 Jennifer: Continuing to evaluate the steps that we had gone through. 

August/narration:

Jennifer walked out of Dr. Talal’s office ecstatic.

Jennifer: You would have thought that Adam had just told me that he wanted to continue our marriage, but that wasn’t the case. 

August/narration:

She was just thrilled that he was willing to keep evaluating until he was certain of his choice. So they headed back home, where they would live near each other.

Jennifer: We were living separate, but on the same property, in separate campers. 

I did exactly what we had all agreed on and that was that I respected his face and, you know, wasn’t pushing myself on him, allowing him to go through what he needed to go through to further evaluate things.

August/narration:

Two weeks later, Adam’s mind was made up.

Jennifer: 

He didn’t need any more time and he did indeed realize he wants to work on things and still continue our marriage.

 August/narration:

Jennifer was grateful and relieved. Ecstatic, again. She called Dr. Talal, who gave them the go-ahead to wrap up their 30 days early.  

Jennifer: And so we did and, I felt like I had won the lottery. He still wasn’t ready to move back in together yet, and he, he didn’t want to start spending a ton of time together yet, but he wanted to remain married. 

And so he just wanted his space still protected for a little while, and so Dr. Talal helped establish some guidelines on what that looked like, and then we scheduled another call for, I think, 30 days later. 

And then within that next 30 days, he finally moved back in, and just truly started to somewhat get back to normal. 

August Wow. And it sounds like your normal was, a new level in some ways, though, because of all this work that you’ve done on the marriage that you didn’t even realize, you know, some things that could be helped. What is your relationship like today? 

Jennifer: It was a little rocky at first, because I was overjoyed, but I didn’t want to show too much excitement, I guess, because, It was, it was strange. It was almost like somebody had passed and I was almost scared to go back to normal too quick.

I didn’t want it to seem like I had just forgotten what really just happened. So I would occasionally try to talk through things, going back to, you know, some of the things that I had learned in all those infidelity books, you know. How much do you want to talk about it? How little do you want to talk about it?

What sparks remind you of things? I want to be mindful of this, or I would over communicate things just to try to make sure if there was ever any doubt in his mind of where I was. You know, “Hey, I’m working late tonight” or things like that. So it was it was kind of new territory almost, you know trying to find the way back to the new normal so to speak. 

Adam is just so different in the aspect of everything I’ve read and all the videos I’ve watched talk about how the betrayed person is so damaged that you have to be okay with moments of anger that come after. 

Something like, “Oh, who was that on the phone? Are you talking to him again?” Just little stabs here and there. All of that is very normal when recovering from infidelity.And Adam doesn’t do any of it. He doesn’t do any of it. And that’s wonderful. Don’t get me wrong. It’s wonderful. And I’m so very thankful. 

 I can tell you right now if the shoes were reversed, if I was the betrayed person, I can say almost a hundred percent certain that I would react what I consider the normal way, I would make a stab here and there.

And he just doesn’t do it at all, August. I mean, he, he is just so kind and loving and, I’m very thankful for it, don’t get me wrong, but it just sometimes does make me wonder how much internal struggles maybe does he go through that he’s just not showing and I’m not seeing.

August/narration:

What did it mean? Was he healing and feeling as connected to her as she hoped? Then Jennifer had an idea, something symbolic that circled back to the day Adam learned of her last deceptions with Brian. One that helped her shift from worry to gratitude, and that she hoped would feel meaningful to both of them. 

Jennifer: So the night that he discovered the phone logs, and he was driving down the road. He took his wedding ring off and threw it out the window of his truck going down the highway. 

When he he decided that we were getting back together, he took it upon himself to get a little cheap black titanium ring.

When he showed it to me, it’s like, you know, “I know it’s not my wedding ring, but this is what I’ve done.” And it was emotional, it was sweet. 

And this might sound selfish, but for me, it was a constant dark reminder. And so, I called our jeweler. He still had the mold from his original wedding ring. And so I said, you know, “I want the same ring.” So he did that. 

Almost a replica of his original wedding ring. When I gave it to him, it was an emotional evening. We drove down to the river and, said basically what I just shared with you, that I know this is going to sound selfish, but there’s something that is a constant dark reminder to me of, my very poor decisions and I want to try to eliminate this dark reminder. 

Then I pulled out his wedding ring and it was a very emotional moment for both of us. You know, I just talked about how sorry I was and how grateful I was that the way he was handling things. There’s so many opportunities where he could try to make me feel bad or rub something in my face and he wasn’t doing any of that and I can only imagine how many times throughout the day that it crosses his mind and what a strong person he was for keeping it to himself.

Because I know it has to happen. There’s got to be certain triggers. There has to be. And so I just said, this for me is a trigger and I would think for you it’s a trigger too, but I, I want to be done with it and I want to get rid of it so I don’t see it anymore and so I pulled out the ring and we just both cried together and it was like from that day forward those Rocky moments here and there that I talked about, they’re gone.

August/narration:

And the growth continues, as a couple and for themselves.

Jennifer: We have better communication. There are some things that I wish were a little different, that I don’t completely feel comfortable asking for just yet. I feel like we’re not even a year out yet. And, silly little things like maybe, wanting an extra date night, or, you know, something like that. I hint around, but I’m not asking for it yet. I think I will be soon. 

Things are good. Don’t get me wrong. They’re really good. But, I definitely would like to see more of, things that I know will bring even more quality and love to our relationship.

August: It sounds like you’re hopeful and optimistic, which is really beautiful. And being gentle with yourself, which is so great. Do you feel that way? Do you feel like your relationship with yourself has improved as well? 

Jennifer: Definitely, Definitely. Journaling has been huge. I started when all of this initially happened on December 1st. And, I’ve just carried it through. It’s healing to go back. And you wouldn’t think it’s healing to go back and reflect on times of sadness, but it truly is healing to go back and to read some of my entries, especially from the really dark days. You know, where I, I just felt so lost and uncertain and not deserving of anything. It’s continuous therapy to go back and reflect on those days and to not forget. And it’s also healing to reflect on the good days that I write about, like the day that he moved back in and the day that I gave them the ring and I write about the good just as much as I do what used to be the bad. 

August/narration:

As for discussing her trauma and all she learned about it with Adam, I wondered about that, too. Jennifer and I went back and forth by email following our conversation. She sent me the timeline of her childhood trauma that she shared in group therapy. 

It’s 4 pages long, powerful and written in present-tense: “I am three now…” “I am four…” “I am eight.” At nearly every age listed, she describes some type of abuse she went through – sexual abuse, neglect and more, starting with molestation by her stepfather before she reached kindergarten. She talks about disclosing abuse and not being believed, acquiring an STD at 14, and graduating from high school – what she considers her “first huge accomplishment.” Then she describes the freedom she felt when she met and fell in love with Adam at 18.  It ends like this: “I beat the odds & am going to live a life far unlike my childhood. I’m going to live this life with the man of my dreams…ADAM!”

Here’s what Jennifer told me about sharing the timeline with Adam, and her decisions about hurtful family members after. She wrote:

“We didn’t talk too much about the trauma in detail. He said he knew I had a shitty childhood but he had no idea how bad it really was… Adam expressed extreme disappointment in both my mother and [another abusive family member] in regards to how they used me to benefit in a sick way with money and drugs in exchange for my sexual activity with older men. He was pretty upset about it and pointed out that they both never stopped using me, only in my adult years they used me in different ways. He was right. I cut them both off from using me anymore… I still talk to my mom but with boundaries. It feels good to have ended those toxic relationships.” 

If you relate to parts of Jennifer’s story, she wanted you to hear this advice.

Jennifer: If you have issues from your childhood And you think just because you have what appears to be a great life, and you think that you’re a survivor, 

August/narration:

…and that your past trauma wasn’t a big deal, that you escaped it and it’s not affecting you… 

Jennifer: Do a good self check on yourself. What that looks like for each person is gonna be different.

August/narration:

She recommends taking the Adverse Childhood Experience, ACE, quiz, which she took. It asks questions about your childhood, such as “Before your 18th birthday, did a parent or other adult in the household often or very often swear at you, insult you, put you down, or humiliate you?” It’s based on a study that showed that the higher your score, the higher your risk is for difficulties later on.

Jennifer: So much of my childhood I chalked up to be almost normal. I can remember I would say, “Everybody has the weird, uncle’s friend that touched them.” sexual abuse is just so common and I just downplayed truly its effects.

August/narration:

She said the ACE quiz is a good foundation or starting point to help you pinpoint possible influences in your life as far as your pattens or ongoing hardships go.

Jennifer: If you have not ever sought out help to kind of dig through some of that, it’s a good idea to do so. 

August/narration:

As far as advice around infidelity, she suggests a few things. If you’re the partner who has strayed, she says, don’t give up too quickly if you hope to salvage an otherwise healthy relationship. Don’t immediately assume it’s done.

Jennifer: 

And that can be a Catch 22. You have to respect somebody’s decision if they obviously say they’re done. 

August/narration:

But keep in mind that it might be tough to make a huge decision that will affect the rest of your lives amid a loved one’s shock, anger or grief. 

Jennifer: My advice would be not to make any major decisions. I would even say within the first year post infidelity. Infidelity is not the same as somebody passing away, but that’s one of the biggest things with Loss. And infidelity is loss. It’s the loss of a relationship. It’s literally a grieving process. The rule of thumb is to not make any major decisions after somebody passes away, such as selling a house or, you know, anything crazy like that.

I feel like the same rule should apply to couples who experience infidelity. Everybody needs their space as they go through those emotions, but to make any huge decisions such as divorce, separation of major assets, I feel like you shouldn’t do anything for at least the first year.

That way you’re 100 percent certain that your decision’s not being made based on the raw emotions of the infidelity itself.

August/narration:

Stay tuned for one more segment in this series — a bonus episode featuring my conversation with Dr. Talal. You’ll hear some of his thoughts about working with Jennifer and Adam, as well as infidelity risk factors and recovery in general. Find a link to the childhood trauma ACE Quiz Jennifer recommends taking in the show notes.

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