All About Pegging with Luna Matatas

[a few bars of acoustic guitar strumming]

Luna:

I grew up in a Catholic household and Catholic school so I really didn’t learn anything other than how to get pregnant. I learned sex was for reproduction. There were no conversations in my household. I also come from a Caribbean background where sex is also very stigmatized, like in many other cultures, and I really didn’t learn that much. 

But when I was 16, I ended up volunteering at a HIV/AIDS network. And at that time, it was very much education focused around gay men. So, it was pleasure focused. And I was like, what? People do this to feel good? So, it was such an opening and I really just got passionate about this health promotion side of things. I was like, does everyone else know this but me? And then it kind of graduated into doing more things with marginalized communities. 

So, when I came out of school, I went to eastern and southern Africa, and I was teaching from a public health perspective and facilitating information around the intersections of gender and HIV. And you know it doesn’t matter where I am—that was 15 years ago—and now I’m here, you can talk until you’re blue in the face about condoms and STIs and people still want to know about pleasure. They want to know how do I “do the thing”? How do I get my partner to do the thing?

August (narration):

As a sex educator, Luna receives a whole lot of questions. And in recent years, many folks’ curiosities have involved some aspect of pegging. She told me she isn’t sure if that’s because anal sex has become a bit more popularized or if the trend stems from a 2015 episode of the sitcom Broad City, “To Peg or Not to Peg.” Regardless, it’s a hot topic.

Luna:

Out of all the emails that I get, they’re about butt stuff, they’re about threesomes and they’re about pegging. So it’s up there with kind of the top fantasies and really embracing this thing that seems delicious, but there’s a lot of shame around it. 

I usually get questions from both receivers and givers of pegging. And so the receivers are usually cis men and concerned about what their partner is going to think of them if they ask for this fantasy, if they ask for this activity. Are they going to think I’m gay? Are they going to think it says this about me? Are they going to think it’s nasty? And then from the giver they tend to be cis women and usually heterosexual women as well. And so they’re like, well, does this make me butch? Or dominant? Does this mean something about him? 

So everyone’s worried about what we do and what it says about us as people. And our erotic desires really aren’t that sophisticated of a pathology. It’s sort of we like the things that feel good and there are many ways that we get to feeling good. Some of it’s from previous experiences, some of it’s “I saw this porn once” and some of it’s “I touched my butthole in the shower and it kind of felt good.” We can really arrive in these places of desiring this kind of pleasure from many different avenues.

August (narration):

Luna explored several common myths related to pegging on her blog in a post called “Five Strap-On Myths Busted.” And the first myth she covered was bigger is better.

Luna:

Yeah, sometimes our eyes are bigger than our buttholes. [laughs] And we want this fantasy of giant things and we think that bigger is going to give us more stimulation, more pleasure. And the pleasure anatomy of the anus doesn’t really work that way.

August (narration):

For some people, Luna told me, the idea of bigger is connected to the aesthetic and fantasy of taking something really big in. Maybe you watched something on porn and you were excited about that. And it gave you the idea that something really large would be the most exciting. But for many people, the pleasure they desire in their bum has nothing to do with something the size of a fist.

Luna:

It could be a really nuanced finger, it could be a tongue, it could be a small dildo or a small butt plug. And that’s going to maximize your anal pleasure and help train your ass for bigger stuff if you do want to get bigger.

August:

So it sounds like that’s a really good beginner step, too, even if you are someone who ends up really desiring a fist size or something much larger. Do you recommend easing your way in literally—and well, literally—with your finger, with smaller toys, before you go to the triple X?

Luna:

Totally. The triple X is like next level and everyone—whether they’re taking from a finger to a penis to a dildo to a fist—requires anal training. Our anus is a muscle or built up of several types of muscle and so we don’t necessarily have that constriction and expansion in the same way that we talk about vaginal muscles. We don’t necessarily need vaginal training but we need anal training because the anus just functions differently. 

So, when thinking about how do I build up to this, one of the great ways, if you’re the peg-gee or the receiver, is to start touching your own butthole. Put your finger up there in the shower and get used to the sensations. Start masturbating with your butthole, start using really small butt plugs and allow your ass to get kind of comfortable with being penetrated and being a receiver. 

And from there, it’s actually a physiological experience for people where we toughen parts of the tissue around the anus so it’s more likely to be resilient and won’t necessarily tear or injure as easily. We’re training the muscle to expand and get stronger. And so that helps with penetration, whether you’re taking bigger things or smaller things. It just helps ease any discomfort or pain if we slowly build up versus, “I’ve never put anything in my butt, babe. Can you just peg me?” 

August (narration):

Here’s another very common myth about pegging. That it’s really all about the receiver’s pleasure when in fact there’s potential for pleasure, not only for the peggee but for the pegger.

Luna:

Ooh, yes. Strap-on play for some people looks like it’s a one-way thing and that it’s the receiver that’s getting all the pleasure because the strap-on doesn’t necessarily have any biological feedback for the giver. So if you’re strapping it on and you’ve got this silicone dildo, you think, well, I’m putting something in someone. This is really our society’s problem with phallic centered pleasure and that everything is going to be in the penetration tool and that’s where all the pleasure comes from. And that’s not true. So we’ve got an erotic experience that is a combination of our physical selves as well as our erotic selves. 

Maybe this is the first time that you’ve penetrated your partner or maybe this is a fantasy you both have been really wanting to do. So, there’s all this mental excitement and mental stimulation. There’s a visual stimulation as well. And there’s a physical stimulation. So, the clitoris actually has stimulation potential from the mound of the vulva—so that area kind of pounding against something—or there are vibrators you can slip into your strap on or things like that. But even just the simple kind of pounding that you would get also during vaginal penetration is stimulating. It’s almost like a really big vibrator that you’re creating against your body.

August:

That’s so exciting… I feel like the dildo gets all the attention. How important is the harness? What are your tips for choosing one that’s helpful to you?

Luna:

Oh, I’m so glad you asked that. Because I think this is one of the places where people buy something cheap and then they decide they don’t like strap on play. The harness is really important so that the giver feels comfortable and that it’s actually holding the dildo against their bodies so that they have more control and it’s not kind of flopping around, which is going to give them problems, and often can just shake your confidence if you can’t get the dildo in or you can’t thrust comfortably or you feel you’re contorting your body. 

So, it’s really important to look for a harness that is both a comfortable material but also has multiple points of adjustment. And those adjustments can be buckles, they can be straps, anything that helps shape it to your body so it feels like a seamless extension. Lots of strap-ons that come in a kit are nylon material and they’re really hard and rough on the body so they can cause abrasions. So, you want to look for something a little bit softer. There are strap-ons in all different materials. If you’re not a fan of leather, there’s silicone, there’s vinyl, there’s all different types of materials but we’re really looking for multiple points of attachment.

August:

I love that. So many choices and considerations. So really taking your time to find the right one makes a lot of sense to me. 

I love that you teach people how to be good at receiving pegging as well. I think there’s this idea that you just sort of sit there and let it happen.

Luna:

Yeah, I think that receivers can do so much more that actually adds to the pleasure for everyone. So, if you’re an active receiver—you’re an active bottom—that can look like communication. So, giving reassurance when it’s good so that’s moans, that’s wiggling your bum or pushing backwards and also giving feedback when it’s not good. As a giver I’ve often been in a position where I think, well, that looks like it hurt. And you’re like, “Yeah, [groans]. It’s okay. Keep going.” And so there’s a disconnect that shakes everybody’s confidence. Don’t take it. Give feedback, even if it’s very simple words like slower, softer, harder, faster, very simple cues to increase the communication. 

[a few bars of acoustic guitar strumming]

August:

I have to ask you about a term that you coined that you have on T shirts that are available. I love them. Lately in the US we’ve been going through this really intense election and it’s so empowering to me to hear this phrase, “Peg the Patriarchy.”

Luna:

Every time I hear someone say it, I get a shiver. And it really is so much about subverting the system of binary gender and binary experiences that come from that. So, it’s all about subversion. And subversion is one of the big themes that many people are interested in, for pegging as a sexual activity but also as a metaphor. It’s about no, we’re not going to work within these prescriptions for masculinity and femininity, sexual orientation and gender. We’re actually going to turn everything on its head. 

So I think it really came about as my desire to connect equity and sex positivity and less about being a sexual metaphor but how we can make pleasure our revolution. It’s very much about taking this into a broader, systemic kind of challenge.

August:

I appreciate that so much. I don’t think we can separate pleasure from patriarchy, issues from politics. When people say to me you should really talk less about politics or why are you bringing up these topics in your work? I tell them it’s all connected. You can’t take one away from the other and there is this really incredible resistance and personal empowerment that goes so far beyond sex, which can be an important piece, but goes way beyond that. 

What is one piece of advice that you would share for someone who’s newer in that journey of “I want to understand this more”? How do I live in a way that is more compassionate and helpful to smashing the patriarchy, as they say.

Luna:

I think it’s really helpful that when we want to question—when we want to deny, when we want to resist—that resistance is actually in us. You will survive that discomfort. What it’s asking you to do is to really come into it and look at it because likely that discomfort is coming from the same shame and same oppression that we’ve all been taught, but we may hold a particular privilege in that area and so it’s distorted. 

So instead of lashing out like, “Where’s the evidence and show me the data!” It’s really about why am I questioning this when all these people who belong to this marginalized group are suffering? I need to listen, I want to listen more.

And so I would just challenge folks, if you’re listening and you’re uncomfortable, to really just sit with that discomfort and go deeper into that story. You will be okay. Patriarchy has no gender. It affects everyone in awful ways. And so our liberation is all connected.

August:

How has all of this work in sexuality impacted your own life and your sense of self?

Luna:

It has been such a nourishing journey to nourish other people in their sexuality and it just comes back. And so as I help folks or as I teach things, it really comes back into me making sure that I’m recycling and reframing and checking my own biases and checking my own experiences. And so I love being surrounded by curious people who are curious about their own sexuality. 

It also is wonderful to be able to be in a position to say things that validate people and say, “I know what’s going on for you and I understand how it’s connected. You’re not crazy. You’re not alone. You are not making this up. You are not oversensitive.” That’s what patriarchy does. It really silences us. And it allows us to think that we’re thriving in shame and we’re not. So to be able to provide that platform also made me access parts of myself that need healing that I probably wouldn’t have had an opportunity to do had I not been in this community.

August (narration):

Luna has experienced many examples of this, when an area of her own need for healing was revealed and surprised her along the way. And in the particular case you’re about to hear her describe, that awareness paired with her acceptance helped spur tremendous growth and led to a whole lot of Girl Boner pleasure.

Luna:

One of my other brands I had created was Fuck Like a Goddess and for Fuck Like a Goddess, I had come out of a nine-year marriage and I went into a year of what I call my year of fuckery. And I realized that I was carrying so much shame. 

I had lost my sense of self. I’d lost my relationship to myself. And so the ways in which I was going into pleasure was about getting somebody else to validate that I am worthy of receiving this pleasure. And that’s usually compromising myself, editing myself, taming my body, taming my desires in order to feel validated. 

And so when I started to fuck like a goddess, I was like I’m here to be worshipped for my pleasure and whatever that looks like that we co-create, it has to be beneficial to me. And, of course, to the other person there’s a mutual, beneficial reciprocation when you have someone that comes in that feels like they belong in their erotic experiences. And so it really helped me take up more space. It helped me say I don’t have to behave in a certain way in order to feel deserving of pleasure.

[A few bars of acoustic guitar strumming music]

August (narration):

Learn more by searching for Luna Matatas on all platforms. She said if you forget it’s like Hakuna Matata, but with Luna at the front. And as it so happens, Luna is about to launch a free 6-month series called Seducing the Butt, in partnership with B-vibe, her favorite butt plug company. She told me she’s excited to offer more butt play education in a way that “isn’t porno” and get into all the nitty gritty of “poop and pain” and “just a whole lot of butt stuff.”

In a recent email survey, I asked folks to share any sex toy questions and this one fits today’s topic. It came from JJ, who wrote this:

I’ve been with my boyfriend for about a year and the sex is great but it’s also very predictable. My boyfriend is less experienced and less adventurous than me sexually, which I am fine with! Anyway, I would really like to try a strap on with him, but he’s shy about sex and has seemed self conscious about having less experience.

Should I wait a bit or is soon okay? So far we basically do missionary and 69… I don’t want to freak him out but I also fantasize about this a lot and think he might really enjoy it. Please help and thanks!  

Thanks so much for your question, JJ. Here is what Dr. Megan Fleming had to say:

Dr. Megan:

JJ, I just love your question. It’s always fantastic, as a couple, if you have your favorite go to positions like your missionary or your 69. It’s like your vanilla or chocolate ice cream. But big picture, I want everybody to have in their expanding sexual repertoire a Greek diner menu, right? With lots of options.

As for how to introduce the conversation, ideally you’re doing it outside of the bedroom. You could say something like, “I heard it on Girl Boner or I read it in Cosmo or Men’s Health and they’re talking about these different sexual positions or the roles of sex toys or strap-ons. Wow. I really found that exciting. What do you think?”

And just so you know, and everybody listening, there’s what we call the refractory period. For most men/penis owners from time of ejaculation orgasm to their next erection, is probably about 30 minutes; when you’re 18 it could be just several minutes or when you’re 80 it could be two days. So, there’s definitely this window but I think it’s that opportunity to say I would also be interested in exploring other kinds of sensations. 

All of this is about playing, trying on, experimenting. And as I always say, try, try again. Because the first time you try anything you’re sort of observing, you’re a spectator. You’re not as relaxed or in the moment. 

All I can say, JJ, is that there’s just a whole world of opportunity open to the both of you. But you’ve often probably heard me say put a toe in the water; don’t go straight to the deep end. So I would introduce the idea initially with sex toys or just the idea of using a dildo or G-spot stimulation or, as always, sharing more about the idea of the turn-on. What about the idea of a strap-on, in particular, really speaks to you?

The more you can explain and share with your partner the underlying turn-on of any sexual experience or practice, in my experience, that is the definite way toward their sort of saying yes to some version of that. And as I said, often it’s the toe version versus jumping in the deep end. 

Also, think of it as a series of conversations, not a definitive one, because even when and if you get into it today, it’s sort of a yes, no, not for now. You should always be revisiting fantasies and expanding your sexual menu or repertoire. As always, would love to hear how it goes.

August (narration):

Thank you so much, Dr. Megan. I love what she said about having those conversations and dipping your toe in first. I love that idea of addressing sex toys. You could also maybe talk about rimming, which is just using your fingers around the anus at first, and I hope you have so much more pleasure in your future.

If you have a question for me or for Dr. Megan, please drop us a note. And if you’re enjoying Girl Boner Radio, please hit subscribe if you haven’t, and consider leaving us a rating and review. For hot sex tips from Megan, on occasion, and a free download of clitoral play techniques, text the word “desire” to 66866. Thanks so much for listening and have a beautiful, Girl Boner-embracing week.