Wild Breakup Stories: Suzannah and Zachary

“Wild Breakup Stories: Suzannah and Zachary”

a Girl Boner podcast transcript

August/narration:

Do you stay friends with exes? How to get over heartache after a breakup? And would you take a psychic’s words to heart before officially calling it quits? Have you ever had a breakup change the way you approach relationships moving forward?

All of these topics come up in the stories you’ll hear today. Two sex writers and experts with very different, and wild, breakup experiences.

First, Suzannah Weiss. She’s a feminist writer and sexologist you’ve heard from here before.

One of her zaniest breakups came at the end of a three-year relationship…and involved a psychic reading and an almost life-changing event. We’ll call the guy Lucas.

Suzannah: He lived in Germany. We actually met at a nightclub in Ibiza, and we fell in love there.

I was actually living in New York and I kind of moved to Germany, but was also kind of nomadic.

August/narration:

Their lives were different in other ways, too. So were their personalities.

Suzannah: He was a software engineer, worked in tech, you know, a very nice boyfriend also, very in the box, whereas I’m very outside the box.

I was a bit wilder than him. Wanted other partners, wanted to explore non-monogamy, was always traveling, was really into psychedelics and things.

He was more just like a very straightforward, nice guy, would take me to dinner, do nice things for me.

August/narration:

Increasingly, Suzannah realized they just really weren’t compatible. Plus, there was some infidelity going on – something that was kind of wrapped into their differences.

Suzannah: I think I have enough distance from the relationship to publicly say that I was a serial cheater in that relationship. And I had a big psychedelic experience where I realized that was not what I wanted ultimately. I ultimately wanted a partner I could share everything with. And I did not like having secrets from him.

So I told myself, you know what, if anything else comes up, any opportunity that would be outside a monogamous agreement, I’m gonna talk to him.

And so I like to say the relationship ended over a 90-minute orgasm.

August/narration:

Here’s how that played out.

Suzannah: This sex educator named Kenneth Play offered to give me a session, so he does hands-on body work. He said he can give women 90-minute orgasms with his hands and toys, and he wanted me to experience this and write about it.

So I was like, okay, now I need to actually tell Lucas that I wanna do this. And I told him and he flipped out and said, “That is so insulting to me. You think I couldn’t do that? You’re gonna write about it and make me look like a fucking idiot.”

And I was like, “Wow, that’s a side of you I have not seen. I don’t think we can stay together, because I wanna be open to these experiences.”

August/narration:

But Suzannah was overseas at the time, which is where the psychic reading happened.

Suzannah:

So this was when we had decided to break up, but I was about to go to Germany to break up in person and get all of the stuff, ’cause I basically lived there .

I was, at the time, actually in a psychic class where I was learning to give psychic readings and the teacher said, “You have to check out this medium, Medium Fleur. She’s amazing.”

And so I had a call with her and it was freakishly accurate. She said I had been dealing with a chronic illness, which is true. And she even named the illness, Lyme disease. I told her nothing.

And then she said, “I feel like you are in the process of ending a relationship, but you’re about to actually travel somewhere to end it in person and get your things.” And I said, “that is exactly right.”

And then she said, “So I see this relationship involving an unplanned pregnancy. Do you agree with what I’m saying?”

I said “No.” She said, “I see there’s a baby really wanting to come in right around your 29th birthday.” I, at the time, was a few months away from my 29th birthday, so I was like, oh shit, I gotta be careful.

At the time I was undecided about kids in general, but I definitely didn’t want a kid with someone I was about to break up with in another country.

August/narration:

So she texted Lucas.

Suzannah: Just saying, “You know what, it’s best if we, when we see each other not to have sex ’cause then we’re gonna wanna get back together.” He didn’t believe in psychics, so I didn’t even wanna go there. I just said, “You know, let’s just make sure we don’t, so we don’t wanna get back together.”

August/narration:

Those orgasmic bonding hormones can be intense, after all. So Suzannah and Lucas made other plans.

Suzannah: We were gonna spend one day together and then I was actually going to the Netherlands for something else. So I arrived in Germany and it was awkward ’cause we’re like, we’re breaking up, what do we do? But we just acted like a couple.

We kissed when I got there and then once we got back to his apartment, it was so soon before I was like, you know what? Let’s have sex. Like it was just only natural. We hadn’t seen each other in a while.

So I immediately took back that rule and I figured why not? You know, I have one more day with him. This will be the last day I ever spend with him probably. So why not make it a fun day?

August/narration:

Plus, they had condoms.

Suzannah: It was actually really hot, really great sex. I think I was just so horny. Planes make me horny for some reason, I was like right around my period, which also makes me horny. And he was like really playing with my breasts, which I love. And then he started rubbing my clit and then I came really quickly and then I was like, okay, so are we going to fuck? Like I really wanted to, and I was like a little bit nervous, but I was like, no, don’t listen to the psychic. That’s just a silly thing.

And then, he put the condom on and his penis starts bleeding. And I’m like, what is happening?

August/narration:

Lucas goes, “Oh, I cut myself shaving this morning.”

Suzannah: And I’m like, “Okay, do you still wanna do it?” And he is like, “Maybe not right now.” And I can’t help but think that could have been a divine intervention.

August: Oh my gosh. Did you tell him?

Suzannah: So I didn’t tell him at that point.

At that point, we just cuddled. We were cool. And then we went out to dinner.

Then on the way home I was feeling a little more open, so I just blurted out, “a psychic, said that if we have sex, I’ll get pregnant.” He laughed and he was like, “Oh, come on.”

I told him all the things that psychic said. I was like, “She said she knew I had Lyme disease. She knew I was in the process of ending a relationship and about to travel somewhere to end it fully.”

And he was like, “Well, she must have just like looked you up online.” I’m like, “I did not say anything online about this breakup.”

He is like, “She must have hacked into your emails.” I’m like, “We didn’t even email about it.”

So then we get back home and of course we want to have sex again. And then we were really careful. I was like, “All right, just to be safe. How about you use a condom and you pull out?” And it was fine. And I did not get pregnant.

That’s what I do normally now, like use a condom and pull out. Why not be that careful all the time?

August: Was that something that you learned from this? Would you say that was your biggest takeaway?

Suzannah: My biggest takeaway is that psychics are real, but maybe not everything they say has to happen in the future. Maybe we have some control over that and maybe there are divine interventions that will prevent that.

But I do think that’s another thing I learned is, you know, if you really don’t wanna get pregnant, state what you want, you can take multiple measures not to.

I think that experience taught me, I am really glad that I made that promise to myself that if I ever wanted to violate the monogamous structure of the relationship, again, I would actually say something. And for me it wasn’t even about like wanting to be polyamorous. It was more about because of my work, wanting to have experiences like a 90 minute orgasm or like going to a clothing optional resort or like seeing a sexological body worker.

I am really glad I made that choice to seek something more authentic because then I was able to get out of that relationship and to find people who accepted me for who I am, someone who is sexually adventurous and for whom strict monogamy isn’t the best option.

I don’t really judge cheating morally as much as I think it’s a way of cheating yourself because you’re cheating yourself out of a relationship where you can share everything with that person.

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One more thing, because today is a little bit sad for me because The Pleasure Chest is transitioning to new ownership and won’t be running ads after this. It was not planned at all to have their last ad placed in my breakup stories episode. But since it is, that episode, I want to say that this is one of the kindest “breakups” I’ve ever had – so civil, so much gratitude on both sides, and yes, unlike pretty much all of my exes, we will 100% stay friends.

Please continue to support The Pleasure Chest, whom I will always be grateful to both for their incredible advocacy and free education, their sex and pleasure positivity and their support of Girl Boner over the years. I love you, Pleasure Chest! This isn’t good-bye, just a new chapter for everyone.

August/narration:

Now, Zachary Zane’s breakup stories – actually two of them, and where they led him.

Zachary is a sex and relationship columnist and Grindr’s sex expert. And his breakups have taught him a lot.

Zachary: Yeah, I think you learn often breakups do not go as planned.

August/narration:

And that was just one lesson. So one of the breakups – actually a pair of them —  happened a few years ago. The wilder one involved the woman  we’ll call Jasmine, he’d been dating. And the context is important.

Zachary: So we were ethically non-monogamous. Actually, we were polyamorous. And at the time I had a boyfriend who was more of a primary partner. And we’d been dating for almost two years.

And when I started dating this woman, I made it clear in the beginning, ” Hey, I’m not looking for another primary partner. I’ve done that. I’ve had two primary partners and it was just too much work.”

Just like navigating like the holidays. When I had both a boyfriend and a girlfriend. I remember this was years ago, like a month before like Thanksgiving and. Christmas, I told them like, “Hey, I’m doing Thanksgiving with you, Christmas with you, New Year’s with you.”

And I agreed to those plans. And during that week between Christmas and New Year’s, my girlfriend was like, “Ugh, I just feel like you’re spending more time with him.” And he was like, “Ugh, I feel like you’re spending more time with her.” And I kind of wanted to be like, fuck both of you.

Like, you know what, like, yes, your feelings are valid. And I thank you for sharing, but like, I planned this a month in advance. I’m not going home to see my family. I would like a little bit of credit. And so I was just like, this is just too much navigating. Since then, I’ve been more like hierarchical in my polyamory.

So I made it very clear to this woman. I’m like, “Hey, I’m not looking for another primary girlfriend.” But in hindsight, I kind of messed up. Even though I would kind of state this repeatedly.

 August/narration: Whenever he thought she was falling hard for him –

Zachary: Which also puts me in an uncomfortable position. I don’t want to have to keep on being like, “Are you falling in love? If you are, maybe we should break this off.”

But I see how I was misleading and that I would be kind of cutesy with her where it’s like, oh, I take her up for a nice dinner on her birthday. You know, we do picnics, we do things like that, and I like doing those things, that doesn’t mean I wanna marry you. That doesn’t mean I want you as my primary partner.

You know, we weren’t using condoms, too, and I was coming inside of her, and I feel like that’s also like step in the relationship. So even though I said repeatedly, “Hey, I don’t see this escalating.” I think because of my actions, she was like, well, he is being cutesy. He actually wants this.

And it’s hard for me because I’m like, “I want to hold your hand when we’re hanging out together. That doesn’t mean I wanna marry you.”

August/narration:

Things took a turn after Zachary and his primary partner broke up.

Zachary: So I had just broken up with my boyfriend of almost two years and I was heartbroken. You know, we had broken up and it was very sad and I was still kind of reeling in the aftermath of it.

I really cared for this person and, I told her just to let her know, obviously this is a big change in my life.

And when I said this, like a big smile came across her face.

August/narration:

And that felt…not great to Zachary.

Zachary: I’m sad, I’m heartbroken. And I was like, Oh, shit. I know what you’re thinking because of this. And so I clarified, I was like, “Hey, just because I’m broken up with him doesn’t mean I want you to be a primary partner.It doesn’t mean I want you to be my girlfriend. Doesn’t mean we’re escalating because this has deescalated.

August/narration:

That was not what she wanted to hear.

Zachary: I just saw her face drop, you know this smile to the sadness. And she goes, “Well I’m glad you told me this ’cause I was working up the courage to share something with you today, and now I’m not gonna share it.”

August/narration:

Momentary relief. But then Jasmine goes:

Zachary: “You know what, I’m gonna share it anyway. Zach, I love you.” [echo: I love you, I love you, I love you…”]

I kind of wanted to scream a little bit. You know, my heart is breaking for this person, but also my heart is currently breaking from another breakup. This was clearly not the time to do that.

I kind of pause and I end up saying, “Thank you for sharing.” Because what else can you say? And she’s like, “Do you love me?” And I’m like, “I love you the way…” and I listed some of my female friends who I do love, but these are just friends. And I’m like, “I don’t think that’s what you’re talking about.”

She goes, “No… Do you think you will ever love me?” And it’s like, uh, I mean, no, I can’t predict the future, you know what I mean? But the answer was no. I didn’t want to give her any hope. So I’m like, “Hey, I think if it hasn’t happened by now, I don’t think it’s gonna happen.”

We end up sitting…she would just be crying and then once every minute maybe ask me a question and then we would just sit staring at each other crying for, I’m not joking, maybe 30 minutes.

Finally, towards the end of it, I go, “I’m really sorry. I feel like you kind of keep asking questions, hoping to get a different response and my response is still the same.” And so I actually thought that this was us breaking up.

Afterwards she’s like, “All right, well, let’s go. We have a dinner reservation, let’s go.”

And I’m like, “I don’t think this is a good idea.” And we ended up going out to dinner.

August: Wait. So you thought you broke up?

Zachary: Well, I thought she was gonna leave…I just felt like this was kinda the end of it. She’s like, “Let’s get dinner.” And I was like, “Hey, I think we should have some maybe time apart.”

You know, like kind of starting the breakup process. She’s like, “No, no, no. We’ve done reservations. Let’s go.” And we end up going out to dinner. It was an Italian restaurant, less than a mile from my place.

August/narration:

They walked there, ate dinner. It was a little awkward. And they didn’t part ways after, like Zachary expected.

Zachary: I was like, “Hey, you should go home.” She kind of followed me back and I was like, “You really should leave.”

August/narration:

Instead, they ended up hooking up.

Zachary:

I’m like, “I don’t wanna do this. This is awkward.” And we still did.

 August/narration:

Again, confusing times. After they had sex, she stayed the night. And he tried, again, to set a boundary. This one stuck.

Zachary: Kind of the next morning I’m like, “Okay, we need to take a break.”

August/narration:

Soon after the break, a little time apart, it officially ended. Looking back on it, that last hookup felt like their farewell romp. Or at least, it turned out to be.

Zachary: I think that was kind of like almost our goodbye sex was that time? But it was just like sad. I felt sad for her. I felt sad for me.

August/narration:

Breakup sex, or whatever you wanna call it,  has a kind of “hot” vibe. But that experience was pretty uncomfortable, on top of other cringe-iness. What do you when someone says, “I love you” and you care about them, but also, you don’t quite feel the same way? He’s not sure if the sex was the best move…if they should have even gotten that far, after she professed her love.

Zachary:  You know, when someone’s crying and saying they love you, they’d be like, you have to leave now. it seems so brutal, but I think maybe I should have…?

You know, there was nothing good to do. You know what I mean? I did my best and in the moment. I was just proud of myself for not saying I love you back. Part of me did love her, you know? I know not in the way that she intended. Of course, I loved her. I care about this person we were together for the nine or 10 months. Like I wouldn’t be spending time with you if I didn’t care for you, but I was just honestly proud of myself for not saying something I didn’t mean. ‘Cause I know me old Zach, seven, eight years ago, would’ve just said, “I love you and then wanted to ghost.” Just to be like, I just wanna avoid this.

August/narration:

Caring about Jasmine also made the sex uncomfortable, because he felt like she had different motivations – at first at least.

Zachary: I think she was hoping like kind of the sex would reel me back in, in a way. Like I kind of got that vibe a little bit. I was like, no, no, no, no, no,

August: What made you think that? What was the sex like?

Zachary: It was just the way where I’m like, “Hey, I think this is a bad idea. And just kind the way she was pushing for it in a way. One of the things, our relationship or the sex life was great, you know what I mean?

That that wasn’t something that we struggled with versus in other relationships, I struggle more with us connecting, but then we connect on this different level. I think it was maybe twofold. I think maybe, hopefully I could convince him through this and then hopefully just like, Hey, I still want this.

And I just remember the joy, but also like the sadness. There was a kind of both in it. It was bizarre. but it was still, yeah. I think it was kind of goodbye sex. I think we both kind of knew this is the last time and this is what it’s gonna be, and yeah, it was just kind of sad. Maybe it gave us both closure. When I held her after there was a little bit of closure to it. I’ve never really had breakup sex before. Just my head space doesn’t go there.

August/narration: ,

It seemed to work out okay, though. Not without awkwardness, but they both did move on separately. And Zachary made a plan to avoid similar happenings in the future.

Zachary: I made a rule after Jasmine, where I was like, Hey, the next person you date seriously, there needs to be like long-term potential and if not, you’re not gonna casually kind of date anymore. Because I felt like I was getting kind of in trouble with this casual dating and I was tired of having these maybe three month to year long relationships that often we end up breaking up for the reason I thought we were gonna break up within the first three weeks.

Whether it’s that we don’t connect on this level, or they’re too judgmental of this, or we have different values or whatever it is. And being like, Hey Zach, you can trust yourself. I’m someone with anxiety and OCD. So I overthink everything to the point that it becomes a pile of mush.

But it’s like, Hey, if you’re concerned about this being an issue down the line, it has been. And that’s why you’re breaking up. And I think of my twenties, I was like, Just say yes. Why not? Let’s see what happens. You can’t predict the future. And then I think my thirties have been more about saying, no, hey, you have a sense of what you like. You know what you like. You don’t need to keep saying yes to things that you think you won’t.

But, so yeah, I made a rule: the next person I call my boyfriend girlfriend, theyfriend, whatever it is, there has to be long-term potential.

August/narration:

Then he met a woman we’ll call Hannah.

Zachary:

So I met Hannah at, House of Yes.

August/narration:

It’s a nightclub in New York, known for wild theme parties, circus performers, burlesque dancers. It’s super LGBTQ friendly and upholds a pro-consent policy enforced by — get this: “Consenticorns.”

Zachary: It’s this big place and we hit it off incredibly. She was brilliant. She was helping me, you know, learning to set boundaries and communicating, and kind of was just someone who was really helping me, I feel like grow as a person.

Very smart and you know, non-monogamous, but definitely more of the monogamous side of non-monogamy. She wanted three kids. She wanted to move upstate. I’m like, yeah, like I don’t want kids at all. That is like a hard no for me.

But we kind of kept going along. And then there was a time where she like wanted to like test run being monogamous for nine months. Makes it sound like pregnancy. And it was not that. It was just to get through a summer.

August/narration:

Zachary brought that up in therapy.

Zachary: My therapist’s like, “You’ve made it very clear you’re non-monogamous. This person’s trying to change you. They’re hoping that after nine months you’ll wanna be more of the monogamous side and see what the thing is to offer.”

August/narration:

At the time, Zachary’s book was about to come out. It’s called Boy Slut: A Memoir and Manifesto. In it, he talks about his very exploratory sex life.

Zachary:

So I’m talking about sleeping with 2000 plus people. I’m a horny person and it’s that she’s trying to take that away from you.

August/narration:

Was his therapist was right? Was she trying to take his slutty exploration away from him? They hadn’t even been together long.

Zachary: It had only been two, three months, but again, it was one of those serious two, three months where like a very serious relationship.

August/narration:

Serious enough to talk about their different desires about kids.

Zachary: And I told her, “I think we’re on like different pages. You want three kids, I do not. And I don’t wanna be the quirky stepdad, you know what I mean? Or the quirky uncle who’s a part of this.” She’s like, “we’ll figure this out.” I go, “we’re gonna be the only people in the world who’s ever figured this out. I feel like this is the deal breaker.”

And the thing was, whenever I spoke to her, she would never say the word “but.” I’d say something and she’d be like, “Oh, totally understand where you’re coming from and,” and then kind of negate what I said. And then I wouldn’t realize it till after she left.

‘Cause I’d think like, oh, this conversation went well. And then I was like, did it? Wait. I don’t know if actually did go well. I think she was just agreeing and nodding, but then saying the opposite of what I said and I left feeling kind of confused and we ended up breaking up.

August/narration:

They talked a lot about these things through email, which is what Zachary used to end the relationship.

Zachary: And so I did it and usually I would not break up via email. But she asked me for the nine-month thing. I responded to that.

I also was afraid of seeing her in person because whenever I have, I somehow get talked out of things. I feel like we would’ve ended up giving it a chance when I really didn’t want to.

August/narration:

He was also on an important deadline for his book. So he sent the breakup email. And her response was…so much worse than he could’ve imagined.

Zachary:

And she spent a week and wrote this like 2,000-word email eviscerating me, kind of all the things I told her in confidence about…you know, the things I struggle with with intimacy, the things I struggle with with suppressing my anger, my relationship with my dad.

All these things I’ve been open about. She kind of threw back in my face.

August/narration:

It was Christmastime, and Zachary was away, visiting a friend in Florida. Feeling anything but festive.

Zachary: I was losing it.  I felt terrible for the whole week.

August/narration:

Then he went home and to therapy, the email in hand.

Zachary: When I showed to my therapist, she was like, “Yeah, Zach, you got chewed up and spit out here! This is particularly brutal.

She really read you for the stuff and Zach, for what’s worth, you’re working on these things, you know, she painted the most extreme side of you, and that’s not who you are anymore. And you are working on these things and you’ll continue. And you’ve already improved so much with me.”

August/narration:

Two years later, he ran into Hannah at a festival.

Zachary: …where we do the appropriate “Hi.” She was like, “Hey, Zach, I’d actually love to kind of talk and catch up.”

And I said, “I’m gonna be real with you. I don’t want to do that. I was extremely hurt by what you said. And I felt it was a little bit uncalled for. I’m sorry you were hurt, but then this, this was brutal.” And she like, was like, “Hey, I know it was, and that was on purpose. I wanted you to get my message.”

And we end up talking for about four or five minutes. We both ended up crying…

August: Did she apologize?

Zachary: Kind of. She wanted to get her point through to me. And, and she was like, and that’s why it was important for me to do this. And she was like, “I’m sorry I hurt you, but she wasn’t sorry she did it.” I was like, “Okay, your point was made.”

A after four minutes, we both cried and I was like, you know what? Okay, we’re fine. We’re on good terms. Now we can run into each other. But obviously, I’m way too hurt and heartbroken to have her in my life and as friends or anything.

August: Oh, that’s so hard. I’m so glad you had a good therapist already. Can you imagine if you didn’t?

Zachary: Do what the irony was? She recommended that therapist.

August: No.

Zachary: Yeah. She had gone to that therapist once, realized it wasn’t a good fit, but then it was a form of somatic therapy that I actually loved her. And she’s like, I think you would do it. And my therapist didn’t even remember who she was. She was like, oh, she must have seen me a while ago, realized I wasn’t her cup of tea, but she thought I was.

August/narration:

Another thing Zachary cope, too.

Zachary: What’s the famous phrase… I think it was Christopher Isherwood. He has this quote in one of his books, “Lovers are like a bus. You get off one and then you can get on the next one.” For me, when I have a breakup, I go into slut mode and that actually works for me.

August/narration:

He uses an app for that.

Zachary:  God Bless Grindr! Grindr is what helps me get over my breakups.

There’s something about just like getting back out there, still feeling validated, still feeling wanted, still feeling desired. And even though it’s might just be casual hookups I’m having on Grindr after a breakup, it still like lets me know I can find love and people will want to date me and find me, attractive and likable. Sex is kinda like this like little, little form of validation in that interim.

Then after a few months of doing that where I’m like, okay, I got this outta my system. I know this. Am I’m ready to date more seriously, than I hop back on Grindr to like, okay, now I’m trying to like date.

August/narration:

While a “slut phase” helps Zachary get over breakups, he said that’s not the ideal move for everyone.

Zachary:  I have friends, this works for them and other friends where I’m like, “Hey, I know you’re doing what I’m doing. It just, it doesn’t seem like it’s coming from the same place.” And like, and it’s such like, it’s seemingly a hypocritical thing to say. , I’m like, you know me, I’m the biggest, you know, sex positive horn dog there can be, but I just wanna make sire, is this coming from a good place?

August: I think that’s so good that you can see that because different things work for different people. And I’m sure people look at you, especially friends of yours who are not sex experts, they look at you and they might want to emulate. You’ve written this book, and you’re this expert. And you’re like, maybe great! And maybe, not great!

Zachary: Exactly! If you were a slut before you dated this person and now wanna go back to it, okay. That’s one thing. If this really isn’t who you seem to be, I would not give you the same advice I’d give myself or someone else.

August/narration:

Currently, Zachary is not in his slut mode.

Zachary: I am now in relationship mode.

August/narration:

He’s been with his partner for a year and a half.

Zachary: And this is kinda the longest relationship I’ve had since my boyfriend of two years that I was talking about.

We met through a friend. She’s actually a professional dominatrix, but used to work in the literary world, which is kind of exactly what I need, as someone who is an author and writer. She actually edits my work but then meets me on that educational, informational, literary level and then also on that sex positive level.

We are now open as opposed to poly. We’re not opposed to being poly, but we still want to kind of build this stronger connection. Both of us find ourself getting a little bit jealous with other partners in a way that usually we don’t. How do we navigate this? How do we be honest about this? Neither of us are dating other people.

August/narration:

All of that feels really right to him.

Zachary: We both met at a perfect time in our lives. I think if we had met seven months earlier, I was still in that place of like dating everyone and not settling down and, not knowing why I’m in these situations. And she was also coming off her heartbreak and you know, also in a slept phase two.

It just happened to be like, I met her at a point where I’m like, I just kind of. I’ve gotten my heart broken a couple of times. I, I can’t fucking do this again. Like I need to slow down with the next person I date and not jump into things. ’cause I get excited. And we took it really slow.

And I don’t mean sexually. When we first met, we had a foursome. That was how we met through friends… I think we hooked up maybe three or four times and then we went on our first dates and then we wouldn’t like text every day. We would text mainly to make plans, to hang out and then do that.

And then after maybe four or five months we’re like, “Oh, I think I love you.” And then we were kind of been in it since.

August/narration:

As for Zachary’s top breakup advice, he shared this:

Zachary: People might disagree with me on this, but this is my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt or not. There often is no good time to do a breakup, I have gotten in trouble where I wanted to break up with someone in person, they’re like, well, now I’m embarrassed and crying in public. Why didn’t you just do this via text?

I’ve gotten in trouble for doing it in person. I’ve got in trouble for trying to preemptively gauge their emotions via text. I’ve heard people get pissed off because you know, they wanted to wait until after Valentine’s Day and then they do it after Valentine’s Day and they realize that that Valentine’s Day was completely fake and they feel like shit. Or the person does it before Valentine’s Day and they’re like, why would you do this before Valentine’s Day?

Like if it’s gonna be a bad breakup, there’s nothing you can do and you just, you just gotta rip the bandaid off. It’s just going to freaking suck.

They’re gonna be upset there. There’s nothing you can do to not make them upset. And they’re allowed to be upset. They should be upset, their heart’s broken. Or if you are an asshole and you led them on, you were an asshole, led them on. Like those feelings are valid, but also if you felt like you’re in the right and you didn’t do anything wrong, you know, let them feel their emotions without it causing too much guilt and pain for you.

[acoustic, encouraging music]

August/narration:

Learn more from today’s storytellers in their respective books.

As you may recall from a past episode, Suzannah Weiss has a book out called Subjectified: Becoming a Sexual Subject.

Suzannah: It’s a book about sexual empowerment from my own perspective, about the experiences I’ve had as a sex and relationship writer and how they’ve informed my view of sex-positive feminism.

August/narration: 

She has another book coming out in September in the US, and in July in the UK. It’s called Eve’s Blessing: Uncovering the Lost Pleasure Behind Female Pain.

Suzannah: And it’s about how women’s pain gets normalized in society and how we can lead more pleasurable lives instead.

August/narration: As I mentioned, Zachary’s book is called Boy Slut: a Memoir and Manifesto.

Zachary: It’s about how to overcome sexual shame, and I write through obviously a bisexual lens, kink, positive lens, polyamory lens, all that stuff. The stuff that I am. I also have a Substack, also called Boy Slut, and that was over like 10,000 subscribers. People love it. It’s nonfiction and fiction erotica, but it’s very  literary nonfiction and fiction erotica.

[acoustic chord riff]

August/narration:

If you enjoyed this Girl Boner Radio episode, or you’ve been enjoying the show for a while, I’d so appreciate a rating on Spotify or the Apple Podcasts app. On Apple, you can also post a short review. Thanks so much for listening.