Finding Pleasure and Keeping Sexy Sparks Alive: Elisa Magagna

“Finding Pleasure and Keeping Sexy Sparks Alive: Elisa Magagna”

a Girl Boner podcast transcript

Elisa: So I’ve gone in for radiation four times and I’ve just gotta the point where I decided I’m gonna wear sexy underwear. You know, I will limp in there with my slut underwear and I’m gonna have him look for a second and, I don’t know if I’m gonna feel great about myself, but I’m gonna just make them look! [laughs] 

[encouraging, acoustic music]

August/narration:

Elisa Magagna is an author and columnist with an infectious laugh and so much grace, even as she navigates a serious form of cancer. She doesn’t run away from or try to hide the negative parts of it all — cancer or life. In fact, one of her recent TikTok videos shows her crying alone in the laundry room. 

She is, however, one of the most encouraging people I’ve encountered. We actually laughed a lot during our conversation for this episode — something you might not expect, given that we were discussing difficult topics like sexual trauma and terminal illness. One of those dark topics came up straight away…

August: Early in your life, back when you were a kid, is there a memory that stands out that you learned about sex or sexuality? 

Elisa: Oh, man. So I would definitely say when I was a teenager, when I was 17, and the exorcism. 

August/narration:

Yeah, the exorcism. For having premarital sex. 

Elisa wrote about the experience in her memoir, “Two More Years,” in a chapter called “The Day I Stopped Believing.” And the sex she’d had perplexed her to begin with, given all she had not learned. It was with her then boyfriend, who she had kind of/sort of informally married.

Elisa: So, this sounds kind of goofy, but I felt like I was really in love with this guy. We had taken our vows just in up in the mountains, and then I really wasn’t ready to have sex.

And his friends, everybody, they said, you guys have to consummate this. It wasn’t legal. We were just kids. I mean, you look back and you think, oh, these are just like kids just almost playing pretend. And then for me in my house, we really didn’t talk about it. 

I truly, even during the act of sex, it was like, oh, is this sex? Because my sister actually talked to me about sex and she had gone through a book and it just had all these weird looking parts where you’re thinking, you know, this is the inside of a person. This is an ovary, so what the hell is sex?

August: That is so true. Like what does that have to do? It’s like looking at cells inside a body. How is that sex? 

Elisa: Yeah. No, it’s, it’s so embarrassing though. But I was just really naive. 

August/narration:

Before long, her church community caught wind of the supposedly “scandalous” sex she’d had.

Elisa: I told my best friend in high school at the time, and she just basically went and told – I don’t know how many people she told, but it just went everywhere. So the whole high school found out, and I was so religious that people actually called me Bible Girl, and I would have Bible studies in the morning.

It sounds so goofy, but for me, it was like, okay, we took our vows and then I made this huge mistake, but then everybody in school heard about it. The whole church heard about it. And so they said, because I had done that, a demon had been transferred to me in the process. 

August/narration:

The exorcism took place during a church party.

Elisa: So we got in the car and next thing you know, we were in the basement of the church. And the weird thing was, the actual pastor wasn’t involved. It was the assistant pastor. And so some of this, I felt like they kind of went behind his back, but there had been this little room for the kids down there and they had these little pea green chairs where the kids would sit. So they actually sat me in one of those chairs and then started to, I’m sorry, August.

I don’t mean to cry, but they started to just hold me down. And you know, I’m like a smaller person. And it was really, really scary because I couldn’t get away. And they kept saying, “do you feel something evil?” And I kept saying, “No, no I don’t.”

 And so then you kind of start going into survival mode. There are all these people, they look crazed, they’re looking scary, what do I need to say? And I kind of started saying, you know, they’re like, do you feel anything evil? And I started saying “Rebellion. Lust,” just anything. It was like, get me out of this place. 

August/narration:

Playing along in that way, to survive the moment and get free, eventually worked — “Hallelujah, Jehovah,” the associate pastor said. He still prompted her for more confessions, but a while later, Elisa wrote, the exorcism stopped because, quote,  “apparently the demons had flown out the window or something.” 

After it was over, Elisa stayed in the room on that pea-green chair, crying, then knelt down, begging God for help.

Understandably, the exorcism experience impacted Elisa’s ideas about sex.

Elisa: So then you all of a sudden start looking at sex as this very bad thing. And I had already kind of looked at it that way, but this just reaffirmed in my mind, it’s like this is a very terrible thing. 

August/narration:

Elisa had also been molested by a neighbor as a kid. So between that and the exorcism, she had had trouble seeing anything good about sex. But she stayed with her first boyfriend.

Elisa: I actually ended up marrying that man. And we were married for almost 13 years, but I had a really terrible time with sex. I just thought it was just a terrible thing, very gross, something I really didn’t wanna be part of. It was basically just something that you do to have children. 

August: Yeah… When did that start to shift for you? 

Elisa: After I got divorced, I started dating this man who was just, he wasn’t a very good man, but it was the first time in my life where I thought, oh my gosh, sex can be really really fun because it wasn’t in that setting of like, oh, we’re, we’re trying to have a baby, or, I don’t know. That makes it sound terrible, but I heard a lot of women say this, that they’ve been in a marriage. That’s the only person they’ve been with. They don’t realize that sex can be different with other people. They think it’s like that with everyone. 

So this guy I dated, he ended up being married. And I remember I had this very religious friend who won’t call her out cuz she would kill me, but this very religious friend said, “I don’t care if you have to sleep with five people to realize that it can be good with more than one person, but please get out there and do it!” He was like, you’re this religious person, what are you talking about?

But um, she just didn’t want me to be miserable for the rest of my life, you know, I don’t know, I think that was good and healthy actually to see that it could be good with different people and I didn’t need to be stuck in this miserable, yeah… [soft laugh] 

August: absolutely. That it can be all about pleasure and connection and all these other things. So at what point in your journey did you become a mom? Or did you start having kids? 

Elisa: So, I actually had my first Ruby at 18. the, the guy who I, you know, had sex with and lost my virginity too, and I was 17, we actually went to Hawaii and were homeless street musicians and somewhere, somewhere on that beach somewhere. And then Little Ruby was born, so we came back to Utah and Yeah. 

August: Yeah. Yeah. And you’re such a beautiful mother. It’s very evident in the things that you share. When you think about being a mom, like what does that, what does that mean to you?

Elisa: Oh my gosh, being a mom is the most wonderful thing. I never wanted to have kids is what’s so funny. And then I had Ruby and she just came into the world and I always tell her, ” You were so fun and I just loved you so much that I wanted a million more.” And so now I’ve had five kids. You know, that’s how good Ruby is.

August/narration:

Elisa was a single mom of four when she met her now husband, Mike.

Elisa: I had a couple jobs and my night job just trying to keep my house, it was as a security guard, so there I was as a security guard and he was one of the workers there.

And he started coming up every morning at four in the morning on his lunch. And so I would try to get all my work done cuz I couldn’t wait to talk to this guy. And then our first date we went up in the mountains and I don’t know what it was, August, but I just, we went in cave and this poor guy, he had no idea what to expect because he’s almost four years younger than me, and he was only 26, so he was a baby. And then here’s this single mom just attacking him, but 

August: It worked out. You’re quite a team. 

August/narration:

Today, they’re teammates not only in love and caring for their little village of kids, but in navigating Elisa’s journey with advanced cancer. The first sign appeared a few years ago.

Elisa: So my mom kept noticing this mole on my wrist. And I thought it was the most beautiful color of purple, like a purple eyeshadow. Gorgeous. But we couldn’t go anywhere without her just constantly talking about it. And so finally, gosh, it was probably over a year. I don’t even know how long I went to the doctor.

And they took it and they didn’t think it was anything is the crazy thing, but it ended up being stage two B melanoma and they thought they got it all. They took out some of my bone and everything. And then in 2020 it turned to stage four and that was when I got hospitalized and doctors had to remove my L3 vertebrae. They found tumors all up my spine and two in my brain. And at that point they told me I only had two years to live. 

August: I can’t even imagine, what it must feel like just to hear hear that news. Were you able to process it when you were told that kind of prognosis? 

Elisa: Yeah, I think it hit me pretty hard. You know, a lot of people will message me and say, “oh, I think I have cancer,” and I know people get worried.

But the thing is, when you have cancer that’s gone that far, there’s no doubt. You know. I mean, I couldn’t barely walk. There was something so twisted in my spine, something so messed up, I couldn’t say, “Hmm, I think something’s wrong.” It was obvious. And so when they told me that, I mean, I kind of, I knew there was something really bad going on.

You know, I tried to make the best of the moment. I ordered a smoothie, pretended I was on vacation, looked out the window and thought, well gosh, I’m gonna pretend I’m in Mexico, just try to get through this moment the best I can, you know? 

August/narration:

In her memoir, Elisa wrote about that moment: “Salt lake doesn’t really look like Mexico, but if you imagine long enough you can almost see crocodiles and an ocean in the distance.”

Since then, through many ups and downs, Elisa has done her best to continue embracing those “smoothie moments,” finding things to enjoy and appreciate. 

August: So obviously the two years was not accurate. But throughout that whole time, it seems like you have had that attitude of like, embrace the moment, embrace the moment. What do you want folks to know about the two years, the ones that you were told this might be it? 

Elisa: Just to appreciate every second that you have, because that was actually a huge gift that they gave me because I started thinking, well, If the last two years of my life would’ve been my final moments, would I be proud of those?

Did I accomplish everything I wanted to? And then also, if somebody’s given you an expiration date to keep living, because we had actually another cancer patient who is doing really bad right now. He gave us money so we could go to Italy and I remember booking the tickets and we had to book ’em almost a year in advance.

And I thought, this is so wasteful. I’m not even gonna live that long. Why are we doing this? You know? But we took that step of faith and, next thing you know, a year later there we were in Italy. And I look back now, because that was over Christmas, you know? And now I have another brain tumor, and I’m so grateful that we went to Italy when we did, because you just never know what the future holds, and you have to take those opportunities when you can, because life doesn’t wait for anybody.

[“Italian lullaby,” fades out…]

August: You live something that I just adore. Pleasure can be suche a balm almost. You’re like, I have this prognosis and. it’s terrifying. And I’m going to pretend I’m on vacation. I’m gonna have this smoothie. You know, you have these moments where you come back to pleasure. How has having cancer and having this prognosis impacted pleasure for you? 

August/narration:

Cancer, like many chronic diseases, can impact sexuality and sexual health – along with pleasure in general. While Elisa now makes a point of prioritizing pleasure, that’s involved a learning curve. 

Elisa: Before I got sick, I had this addiction to thrift store dresses. I don’t know what it is. But I love them. They just make me feel sexy. I love doing my hair up like a pinup picture. People thought I was goofy, but we’d go to the grocery store and people would stop me and say, “well, gosh, I never see anybody dressed like this anymore.”

But when I got sick, for a little while I stopped going to get these dresses and I stopped doing my makeup and I stopped doing my hair. And then at one point I just realized this is ridiculous because actually, this is so silly, but somebody hit on me at the store.

And I had a friend say to me, “well, who would hit on you? You have cancer!” And I thought, that is ridiculous. I am still alive. I mean, I can’t walk the same, but I don’t wanna feel any different. I still wanna feel like I’m attractive.

So at that point I thought, I am, I’m gonna put my fake eyelashes on. I’m gonna try to look nice. I’m gonna go get a couple dresses. Yes, maybe they don’t hang the same on me cuz of how I stand. Or maybe they don’t look as great when I sit in my wheelchair, but I’m still gonna do that. 

And then also trying to make life fun for Mike too, because a lot of couples, one person finds out they have cancer and statistically I think it’s something like 90% of people end up getting divorced.

And that’s people who are young adults with cancer. And if you have cancer at the age of 39 or under, you’re considered a young adult with cancer. And so I just crossed, I’m now, I’m now 40. I am an adult with cancer. [laughs] 

August: Aw. All grown up!

Elisa: Yes! But just trying to keep that romance alive. Just because I have cancer, I don’t want him to, to not be happy. You know, especially in that way, that’s so important for couples just to feel that love and that bond, and even if it’s not just about sex, but if it’s about just doing kind things for each other. Just putting my favorite pair of underwear that I love on him, on his pillow and just being like, maybe I don’t feel great tonight, but I really wanna see these on you.

August/narration:

Elisa also made a decision about her own underwear, which was basically inspired by her latest tumor. A way to make a daunting treatment more fun – or at least really interesting.

Elisa: Sometimes with the radiation, you actually have to, to strip everything down. And so the first time I went, oh my gosh, it was so embarrassing. So you’re standing there and they actually have you take off your gown. And so there I am with my fake boobs and all their glory and it’s like, Okay. 

You know, there are like three or four techs around and you’re just in your underwear. Then they have you lie down in this thing that they called it my nest, but it’s basically a body mold cuz they wanna give themselves even up to one millimeter of accuracy. So they don’t want you to move it all. So while you’re, you’re in there, then they put washcloths over your breasts because they, you know, to give you privacy.

I’m like, I feel like we kind of crossed that, you know? And then they actually put me in this sack that came up to my shoulders and suck all the air out and it smooshes you. And at that point I thought, thank God for the washcloth clothes. Cuz can you imagine your boobs are just there and then you’re like smashed?

August: It’s like Saran wrap or something. I just feel like you were shrink wrapped. 

Elisa: Yes. And it’s so sweaty in there after a point. Yeah. Cuz the hose just sucks all the air. I had to go in there for that kind of back radiation. Gosh, I don’t even know. It was something like 16 times or it was a lot.

And so I’ve gone in for radiation four times and I’ve just gotta the point where I decided I’m gonna wear sexy underwear and it’s gonna say “slut” on the butt. They don’t know if it’s true or not. It’s not. But I can make ’em wonder! You know, I will limp in there with my slut underwear and I’m gonna have him look for a second and, I don’t know if I’m gonna feel great about myself, but I’m gonna just make them look! [laughs] 

August: I adore you. What a powerful way to not only, I think it just is like a reminder of your humanness and also that you are still a sexual being that you have desires and you have underwear that’s fun and sexy. I just think that is so, so amazing.

Did anybody along the way ask you or talk to you about sexuality aspects of your treatments and things like that. I know a lot of times it’s not brought up. 

Elisa: No, no, they really didn’t. And it’s almost kind of assumed, and I don’t know if it’s mainly because in the melanoma clinic a lot of people who have melanoma are older.

And so I would say most of the patients there are in their late seventies or eighties. A lot of the people who I see are older. And not to say that people those ages don’t wanna have sex too. I know they do, but I don’t know if they just assume they know everything. I dunno. Those are the people we should be talking to about sex. 

August: Yeah. We should be asking them the questions about sex because they had a lot more experience. I love that. 

Elisa: Yeah. But they didn’t bring it up at all. So there’s a counselor in the melanoma clinic and yeah, she didn’t bring it up at all. 

August/narration:

Something we both wish would change. Speaking of wishes, Elisa has been going after many of her own, since her cancer diagnosis, guiding with a bucket list.

Elisa: I’ve had it since about 2014. Just different things that I wanted to do. in hindsight, that’s really amazing. You know, it’s worked out well. 

One of the things was to play the violin in the subway in New York. [Elisa playing violin…] So we had done that I think in 2015, 2016. So different things like that. But most of the things we’ve checked off later, you know, just kind of feeling more of that urgency and, and I wish I would’ve felt that before because I’m kind of, of the mindset now that everybody should have a bucket list and they should keep adding to it.

They should almost have things that they really wanna do and just keep adding to it every year because then their life will be so full of these fun things they’ve done, memories they’ve made. And it’s not just about, you know, things you wanna do, but it’s amazing how it helps everybody around you kind of have that sense of joy.

August/narration:

One item on Elisa’s list that brought joy, and also some intense butterflies and chances to laugh her butt off with Mike later was skinny-dipping.

Elisa: So with skinny dipping [laughs], I just always had thought that that would be so mortifying but it was our anniversary and one of those moments, again where I thought I really wanna make life fun for Mike.

And so here we are hiking up in the mountains. There is this stream, our anniversaries in September, it’s freezing cold. And next thing you know, Mike looks over and I’m naked in the water! He goes, “oh my gosh!” This is so terrible. He didn’t wanna get in and save me because it was too cold, then not a strong person anymore. And the water started taking me away and there were all these farms down there, and Mike wouldn’t get in. And finally he leans down and reaches over his, you know, pants are rolled up and he just helped me back. And I said, you know, “maybe you just saved me from a successful life with a farmer because I was about to wash up into one of their crops naked.” They would’ve thought, who is this girl!? 

August: I just had this vision of like this naked, gorgeous mermaid, just like handing in the crops. You would’ve made all the headlines. 

Elisa: I don’t think it would’ve been that glamorous. I even tried to seduce Mike and before, before I even got sick, I remember Mike saying, you know, are you limping?

Is there something wrong with your eye? Because like me trying to be sexy is not a thing. It’s just 

August: I love that so much. That’s amazing. 

August/narration:

I’m pretty sure Mike finds her goofiness pretty sexy though.

So as Elisa mentioned, she recently learned about a new tumor — after other treatments had helped and she was exceeding doctors’ expectations, as far as her health and longevity. And especially when she heard that news, it made things like joy, pleasure and laughter more challenging. 

Elisa: Yeah, I think the advent of the new brain tumor has been really hard because I’d kind of lulled myself into this thought that maybe I could get better. And you know, doctors have said I never will. There’s not a cure for this. Maybe they will come up with a cure, but for some reason I’d started to hope, and this sounds terrible, but that can be a very dangerous thing where I’m at because there is a lot of power in acceptance, because there is a semblance of control that this is what I’m facing and I do need to just appreciate today. 

And so, I have started blogging into the future. I have posts that will come out in 10 years so my kids can read those.

And so, that’s been nice. I have certain posts just addressed to them specifically and to Mike too. 

But, yeah, I think just appreciating every moment. And you know, I just wanna accomplish the things that I have on my list, like, you know, writing this second book, so I started working even harder on that.

My first book about cancer that came out, I had a, a review on there where somebody had said, what’s the point of this book? You know, people don’t get better from stage four melanoma that’s gone into the bones. What’s the point? And in the second book, I try to really make the case for that. I know I’m dying.

It’s not about the fact that I’m dying, it’s about the fact that I’m living. And that, okay, yes, there’s another brain tumor, but that’s still not going to stop who I am to change who I am, the kind of mom I am, the kind of wife I wanna be, the kind of person I want to you know, represent for other people who are going through this that it’s okay to cry sometimes, but that you can still find the good even in the tears.

August/narration:

She’s also learned to step into the difficult feelings, versus try to fight them.

August: 

Elisa: Yeah, I’ve definitely had to learn to embrace it, especially the anger. Anger has been hard for me to say it’s okay to be angry about this. 

August/narration:

She compared it to the pain she experienced with childbirth.

Elisa: So four of my five kids I had without pain medicine. And I realize that if you embrace the pain, your body works with you and you end up having the baby a lot faster. But my first baby, I was in labor for about 27 hours, something like that, because I was fighting it.

So I’ve looked back at that experience and thought if I can just embrace what I’m feeling and just kind of roll with it. It seems like my body is trying to heal itself in its own way, even the emotional aspect. And so yeah, when I get angry or I’m sad sometimes I’ll go lock myself in the laundry room and turn on the washer and just cry, you know?

Or go play my violin just in the backyard. The poor neighbors [laughs]… But yeah, just trying to embrace it and do the best that I can, because it’s not always easy. 

August/narration:

Elisa often looks back on her life and reflects on her journey so far and the legacy she hopes to leave. 

One adventure she recalled during our conversation involved her foray into very spicy erotic writing, for a book she had published under a different pen name.

Elisa: If my mom ever finds my pen name, cancer won’t kill me. It’ll just be me dying of embarrassment 

August/narration:

Kidding and also not kidding.

Elisa: So I wrote a book and it is so, I think it’s so nasty none of the American publishers wanted it, but the German publisher was like, yeah, this is us. Like “we want this.”

August: Okay, now I wanna read it. [both laugh]

Elisa: Oh man. The book is about swingers who go to this convention and just have this amazing time where they basically can bid on different different people and be with them for the night. 

This woman goes to this convention and there are all these people there that were very well known people in her area, like the mayor and different things. And so that’s what the book’s about. But it was funny because I did have American publishers say swingers are taboo. They weren’t comfortable publishing something about this. 

August/narration:

That reminded me so much of my own experiences in publishing. 

August: Yeah, it’s wild. I actually [BLEEP] who publishes very sexy stuff tell me, well, tell my agent that Girl Boner. This is a direct quote from the letter, I won’t say who it was, but who said, ” love the topic, love the book. I’m too much of a prude to publish it.”

Elisa: Wow. 

August: They published what’s known as smut, but when it was like real true stories? It’s interesting, there’s a lot of scariness around these topics because of things like what you learned growing up that sex is bad.

Elisa: Your book is so necessary though. I’ve actually thought for my two adult daughters, I would love to buy them copies of the book. I even have my copy with me here right now! 

August/narration:  

That was so nice of her. Obviously I want to send over copies for her daughters stat. Also Elisa deserves a ton of credit, for the positive example she sets for her kids. She doesn’t want them to go through the same hardships she did.

Elisa: I just think it would help them because I don’t want them to go through all of the stuff that I did and just years of truly being miserable. 

And then also that feeling of I truly felt like the person I had sex with first that I belonged to him. And that sounds so goofy, but the way that I was raised, that because you have sex with someone now this is your person and you have to be with them. And that is a very scary place to be. 

It’s actually quite ridiculous. Men get all these accolades and attaboys for having sex with different women. And yet when a woman goes out there, it’s not okay. You know? But I think it’s absolutely necessary to find the person who works for you, who you can be happy with — soul, mind and body. 

 [encouraging, acoustic music]

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August/narration:

As I’m sure you’ve gathered, Elisa speaks freely about lots of topics that many people shy away from: sex, illness, mortality, the death of a child, which she went through at age 19 and wrote about in a book called “The Golden Sky.” She told me that her will to speak so openly started after the sexual trauma she experienced as a kid.

Elisa: So after I was molested by this neighbor girl, I had told some people when I got older. Certain people didn’t believe me. Some friends that I had, I even talked to a teacher at school and I don’t know if it was because she was a, a girl who had done this to me, a much older girl. Almost because it was a girl who had done this to me, it was like it wasn’t a big deal . And, um, for me, I started having dreams that I didn’t have a voice, that I would be crying out and nobody would hear me. And so as I’ve gotten older and I’ve gone through hard things, man, I wanna have that voice.

And if people wanna listen to me and it’s gonna help them, somebody else who also feels like they are not heard, then I’m gonna talk about it. I’m gonna talk about how much it sucked to be molested by an older girl. I mean, it was terrible. It was really terrible. I’m gonna talk about what it was like to lose a child and how devastating that was. And also talk about how hard it is just to go through this with cancer. 

August/narration:

Elisa’s latest book, “Two More Years” details her journey with cancer, including how she’s been able to find goodness along the way. Her next book, releasing soon, explores her bucket list experiences. It’s called “Ring the Bell.” 

And the advice she wanted to leave you all with ties into both of them.

Elisa: I think that everybody is, has experienced something hard and sometimes it’s not as obvious as terminal cancer. But I think all of us are going through hard things and just the importance of being kind to each other. But also feeling validated that life sometimes isn’t easy and it’s good to be good to other people and ourselves. I mean, just go get an ice cream. Just go have fun. Even if your capabilities of going to do something to enjoy life seem really small, you know, maybe it’s just walking around the block. Just do something to enjoy life. Be good to yourself. Be good to other people, and just live the dream. 

August/narration:

Going to get ice cream is actually exactly what Elisa did the day after learning about her new tumor, by the way…

Learn more about Elisa’s work and check out her books at ecwrites.net. You can also hear a bonus clip from our conversation, on how her faith has evolved and what God might think of her slut panties, on Patreon. We had some good laughs about that.

With Elisa’s permission, I’ll leave you with audio from a TikTok video Elisa posted recently. In the video she’s sitting on her patio, wearing a turquoise sweater, her hair clipped up in an elegant updo, playing her violin. The title reads, “Join me in my safe space.” 

Follow Elisa on Facebook: @realecstilson

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