Curious about threesomes, or ways to make your next one better? I loved exploring multi-person play with author and educator Stella Harris for the latest Girl Boner Radio episode.
Stream it on Apple Podcasts (the iPhone app), iHeartRadio, Spotify or below! Or read on for a lightly edited transcript.
“Threesome Myths, Tips and Considerations with Stella Harris”
a lightly edited Girl Boner Radio episode transcript
Stella:
I’ve definitely found in my work that people tend to have a fairly narrow definition of sex, and then that tends to carry over into what their definition is of a threesome that tends to involve everybody’s genitals and usually some kind of penetrative sex. That kind of limiting factor can make imagining threesomes and planning threesomes trickier.
August (narration):
That was Stella Harris, a Certified Intimacy Educator and Sex Coach who teaches her clients about everything from pleasure anatomy and communication skills to kink and BDSM. Her new book, The Ultimate Guide to Threesomes, debunks so many myths about multi-person play. It’s encouraging, practical and informative, for anyone who wants to get into threesomes, have just one threesome, improve their ongoing experiences or decide whether or not threesomes are a good idea to begin with.
She starts the book out talking about those narrow definition of sex and threesomes and kicks what many people assume about threesomes to the curb. In a section called “Thinking Beyond the Standard,” Stella talks about one of her own threesome experiences with a cis- male-female couple she met on a dating app. They met for a drink and seemed to hit it off. As they chatted, she asked them her usual pre-play questions about their experience level and what they were seeking.
The couple had played with other couples in a full swap scenario, she wrote, but they had never had a threesome. With Stella, they were hoping for their first. As they continued talking, she learned that they were also curious about kink, and rope bondage in particular. After a few more questions about safety and expectations, the three went back to the couples’ place where they headed to the bedroom.
Stella:
And I ended up tying up the woman who had never been tied up before and the fellow wanted to explore some prostate play. My pants never even came off. There was not sort of, quote unquote, what people think of as “traditional sex” in this threesome at all.
Luckily, I often have, you know, a bag of goodies in my car; when I used to do in person classes, I was sort of ready for anything. Otherwise, that would have not been in my first date kit. And everybody had a great time. And again, it was very non-standard. But I think the thrill that people get from threesomes is often just the extra energy of another person, another skill set, another set of fantasies; I think some interesting things can happen if you’re sort of open minded about what could be involved.
August (narration):
Stella told me that she hears a lot about threesome desires from couples and single folks who are looking to get into this kind of play. She said threesomes have sort of become a default fantasy for some reason.
Stella:
I’m not sure how it got this status as some sort of ultimate fantasy, ultimate kind of sex. But I think now that it is in that position in sort of the greater fantasy world, I think a lot of people want to have a threesome just because it seems like the thing to do, something to sort of tick that box—I have done that—as though it says something about their sexual prowess or says something about their ego. It’s sort of something they want to achieve, without having really thought about why. Oftentimes, especially for men, it can be, an ego thing of like being good enough to satisfy multiple partners.
I think we’ve seen something happen in the culture recently where more awareness has been put on everybody’s pleasure. And then that has gotten twisted into it’s still not about the other person’s pleasure. It’s about someone’s ego and being able to give pleasure and it just gets all twisted around. And so I think a threesome can become the ultimate example of that; like I can get so many people off. I’m so amazing. And in those circumstances, nobody really has a very good time.
August (narration):
Stella explores lots of healthier and more helpful motivations for having a threesome in her book, too, such as added stimulation, cuckolding, which is commonly defined as a a straight guy getting off on watching his wife or girlfriend having sex with another man, exploring new bodies, dynamics or specific fantasies, doing something considered taboo, simple curiosity and voyeurism.
Stella:
It works really well if you have at least a hint of voyeurism, because a lot is going to be happening in front of you. And I think being able to get off on seeing that helps assuage jealousy, which is people’s big concern when it comes to multi-person play. Being turned on by what’s happening is a pretty good way to short circuit that default jealousy response. So it’s great to just be able to have this show happening right in front of you.
August (narration):
Stella also talks about something called the arousal feedback loop.
Stella:
When I’m coaching couples, often both people will say, “Well, what turns me on is seeing them turned on.” But if that’s both people’s only starting point, it gets kind of tricky because it’s like, “well, I don’t know, you go first,” and then nobody can get started.
And in a threesome, you have this opportunity to watch someone getting turned on by what’s going on and then that can turn you on and then you can dive in. It’s easier to basically watch people’s enjoyment because when there’s that third body or more, again, you have that opportunity for voyeurism, the opportunity to watch. If you are constantly involved in every activity, you don’t get that outside perspective in the same way.
August (narration):
Stella told me that a threesome can also serve as sort of training wheels for someone who wants to explore something new, especially in a culture where it’s easy to put pressure on ourselves to immediately be quote unquote “good” at sex and everything we try during sex immediately.
Stella:
…which is an unrealistic expectation, but something that people put on themselves.
So if you’re there with a partner who is already familiar with the kind of person you want to play with, you have some support in that, anything from being given an actual lesson on how something works or just sort of having backup support, so that all of the pleasure is not your responsibility, which is already not how sex works. But that is the fear that you’re going to let someone down, not be enough fun. And so having someone to help you out with that and sort of ease you into that can really help.
August (narration):
If you’re interested in giving a threesome a try, Stella recommends figuring out your ‘why” first and foremost.
Stella:
I mean that is something I stump people with on a regular basis. Couples will come to see me and say they have this fantasy and I ask why and it’s just silence. They haven’t thought about that. So knowing why is essential, because without the why you can’t decide what kind of threesome you’re going to have, what kind of folks you’re going to invite, what you’re going to do once you get them to show up.
If you haven’t really gotten beyond the “this is a box I want to check,” that’s sort of a first place to start… If you are coming to this as part of a couple, have a conversation to make sure that your whys are the same, because a mismatch in why is going to lead to a lot of problems. And I recommend that for sex with just two people as well. I ask people all the time, “why do you want to have sex?” And that can stump people at first, or they think I’m being silly or patronizing. But there are tons of reasons.
An example I often give in classes is if one person is really missing their partner and wants some additional intimacy and connection and the other person is tired after a long day and just wants an orgasm so they can get to sleep, those are both perfectly fine reasons to have sex but they are a little bit of a mismatch, in the moment, that could leave one or both people frustrated or with hurt feelings.
August (narration):
I asked Stella to share an example of a mismatch in the “why” department that can be problematic and potentially make a threesome not a good idea, at least just yet.
Stella:
One of the reasons that rarely goes well for any kind of sex is if one person is just trying to please their partner. So if you’re just along for the ride and trying to be a good sport, the reality of another person in your bed and another person having sex with your partner in front of you, that is a pretty difficult thing to just sort of ride out as a good sport. I think that is not a great idea.
August (narration):
Things can also get tricky, she said, if you and a partner haven’t discussed what you’d like a threesome to mean for your relationship.
Stella:
If you want this to be sort of a one-off adventure or if you want this to be the beginning of a lot of openness or exploration or even the beginning of an ongoing relationship with this third person, if someone wants to ultimately have a triad and the other person just kind of wanted a fun night, that is going to lead to a lot of heartache down the way.
And that’s a lot to put on this third person as well. That is a why that you need to know in order to have that negotiation, because the third person deserves to know sort of what your intentions. Not to get too old fashioned about it, but is it a one-night adventure or is this the start of a long-term relationship?
August (narration):
With anything new, it’s natural to have a mix of emotions, especially if that something new feels pretty daring or unconventional. Having butterflies, for example, seems completely normal before your first threesome. But certain emotions, such as jealousy, are really important to know about yourself and discuss before threesome play.
In the Ultimate Guide to Threesomes, Stella includes a quiz to help you explore your feelings well in advance. And jealousy is one emotion you definitely want to pay attention to and practice compassion around.
Stella:
People treat jealousy like it is something to avoid at all costs and I think that is in general because we try to avoid difficult feelings. We try to avoid conflict. I think it’s just information. Jealousy is an umbrella term for a bunch of other feelings, and it gives us information about what we need. And it can give us some tools for valuable conversations.
But again, that is one I think you want to figure out before there’s another body around or another two bodies around. And that can be a problem for a single person, too. If you’re getting into a threesome with two people and it’s one person whose attention you really want more than the other, there can still be difficult feelings, jealousy.
And that’s part of why I suggest a lot of baby steps. What happens if you are looking at porn together? What happens if you are going to a strip club or, right now, maybe like watching a cam show together? Just how does it feel if your sweetie is getting turned on by another person? Can you enjoy that turn on with them? Or are you going down a path of, you know, comparison? Is it bringing up a lot of insecurities for you?
August (narration):
In the book, Stella also brings up important cautionary information about alcohol and the risks of letting intoxication sort of guide the way. In a chapter on negotiation she wrote, “an awful lot of threesome stories start with people at a bar or at home drinking. You hear about drunken threesomes that people can’t even remember the next day—and is that really what we want from a fantasy we’ve been looking forward to?”
Beyond that, she added, substance use alters our perception and should be taken into account when you’re considering everyone’s ability to make judgment calls or give consent. And she’s heard many stories about threesomes gone wrong because of that.
Stella:
The friend whose story I share, their girlfriend brought a work friend home and it led to a threesome. And then the next day that led to lots of hurt feelings. And it turned out a lot of negotiations were skipped. And that just kind of ended badly for everyone.
August (narration):
Here’s an excerpt from that story:
“Even though it was their idea, and they started making out with each other first, they were the ones drinking and smoking weed, so I became the bad guy. I know now that, had I stopped and had conversations with them and discussed boundaries, if nothing else, the fallout the next day would’ve been less.”
If you’re intoxicated, Stella said, you’re not thinking about all of the questions you want to ask. You’re skipping through safer sex protocols. It’s already tricky when there’s an extra body to stay mindful of considerations, like minding all of your fluids and…
Stella:
…who’s touching who and when was the last time you washed your hands? I mean, that is tricky even for very mindful folks. If you are intoxicated, I can almost guarantee you are going to miss some of that.
August (narration):
Intoxication can interfere with pleasure, too, because as Stella pointed out, it doesn’t necessarily play very well with arousal in the body.
Stella:
It can lead to all kinds of physical outcomes that are not ideal for sex. So you’re probably not going to have the best sex of your life.
August (narration):
Research shows that high levels of intoxication can lead to delayed and less intense orgasms, as well a difficulty with erections.
If you’re bummed out about skipping a little buzz, fear not. You don’t have to skip your ritual glass of wine if that’s something you’re usually fine with.
Stella:
You know, I get wanting something to break the ice or lower inhibitions a little bit. And this is another reason I think that you want to sort of ease into it slowly. Have a first threesome that is exchanging massages or exchanging make-outs. Have other ways to get comfortable and know your own personal limits.
I’m not saying you have to be 100% sober all the time. But you know there is a difference between stumbling home drunk from a bar and having a glass of wine with dinner, if that is typical for you, and you know how you respond to that. So it’s not necessarily about 100% abstaining from everything. It’s knowing where your baselines are, where your partner’s baselines are.
August (narration):
Stella really emphasizes these ideas when she gives college talks. She said she would never expect college students to never experiment with anything.
Stella:
And, you know, we know abstinence-only education doesn’t do any good. But I often just advise them not to combine multiple new things at once. You know, don’t try a brand-new substance and then group sex at the same time. You know, know how you’re gonna respond to each thing separately, before you think about combining those things.
August (narration):
As for where to find folks to have threesomes with, if not that iffy situation Stella talks about that is unfortunately how many start out, a drunken night without much intentional decision, Stella recommends taking your time and being really thoughtful about it. Now, with the pandemic ongoing, you have even more time and reason to heed Stella’s preparatory advice.
Stella:
I talk a lot in the book about the idea of becoming a threesome person…the kind of person or couple that threesomes happen to. Honestly, that takes a bit of work.
When couples who have been basically monogamous and they’re not involved in any sex-positive communities, kink communities, open relationship communities, and they just want a threesome, that is probably one of the more typical scenarios and one of the most difficult, because you probably don’t already have friends in your life that you can just proposition out of the blue. And so that takes a bit more work.
If you want it to be more of a lifestyle, if you want to have more than one threesome, it is a good idea to, you know, read some books, take some classes, really learn about consent, maybe get involved in some of these communities.
There are sex-positive communities of various flavors in just about every city; some of them are more underground than others, depending on the size of the place that you live. But people are having the sex everywhere. So finding those folks is sort of the easiest way, but also, again, the most time intensive and not something that everyone’s going to be up for if they don’t want it to be a lifestyle.
And honestly, the dating apps are kind of the best way, especially ones that are geared more towards sort of sexy hookups and not necessarily long-term relationships. So finding an app that has features that allow you to say what you’re looking for and be kind of upfront about it.
But even mainstream ones like Tinder—I mean, I’ve ended up in threesomes thanks to Tinder—but again, being upfront about what it is you’re looking for, making sure you’re not doing any bait and switch on anybody and not approaching people who clearly are looking for a monogamous, one-on-one dating.
August (narration):
Even then, though, Stella said, you’ll want to make sure you’ve done the groundwork.
Stella:
Because folks who are threesome savvy, they’re going to be looking for certain things. They’re going to be looking for, how do you handle consent? How are you negotiating? If you’re part of a couple, is it clear that both parties in the couple are onboard or is somebody along for the ride? There are just so many red flags that you still kind of need to do your homework to find a threesome partner and to ultimately have a good experience.
A threesome is not something you’d necessarily decide on the spur of the moment, “let’s just go do this tonight,” having done none of the groundwork, unless, potentially, as you say, you know, with a sex worker. But just because you could get someone to show up spontaneously, doesn’t make it a good idea. Because if you haven’t done the groundwork with your partner, you can still run into all of the problems with jealousy and comparison and fallout later. So just getting someone to show up is not the only work to do.
August (narration):
So let’s say you’ve done your homework. You have a threesome set up and you know what everyone enjoys—the style of sex you’d like to have, where you’ll meet, what safer sex practices you’ll use… The time comes and you all gather together, eager to get busy.
Then what? Do you just…dive in? Or is it better to plan those activities out, too?
Stella:
I always err on the side of more talking, with the caveat that you’re not choreographing. Plan sort of in generalities, plan around the feelings, plan around what is and isn’t on the list. But don’t sort of choreograph exactly what you want to have happen at every step of the way because people and bodies don’t work that way, and you will definitely be disappointed because something won’t go according to plan.
August (narration):
In other words, do a lot of planning, but stay flexible with the details. Even then, Stella said, no matter how much planning you’ve done, the first time is probably going to feel like, “Oh my gosh. What now?” For that, she recommends having some icebreakers ready.
Stella:
Decide we’re gonna start with a group massage, or maybe we’re gonna start by making out or, you know, any of those sort of silly party games. You know, the stuff they sell for, you know, bachelor-bachelorette parties. You know, roll the dice and then you do this or, you know, Twister.
As silly as some of that stuff is, it can be so great to have a framework to fall back on in the moment. Or, again, if one person is more experienced, to sort of have empowered them to be the one to say like, “Hey, how about we try this?”
I can’t really overstate how difficult it is to dive in and do the thing if you haven’t discussed, in advance, exactly how that’s gonna start or don’t empower somebody to say, “How about we move to the bedroom now?” But the good news is, once you start, it flows easier than you think it might. Kind of like riding a bike, you will remember it as a thing that you know how to do. Once the touching starts, once the kissing starts, one thing will flow to the next once you get the ball rolling.
August (narration):
I thought that was really encouraging.
One thing I love about Stella’s book is how non-judgmental and welcoming it is, both for people interested in threesomes and folks who end up deciding you know what, threesomes aren’t for me at this point in my life.
At least once a month I hear from someone who fears they’re sexually “not cool enough” to match up to something a partner or their peers are into. (Side note: there is no competition or hierarchy around sex stuff. I promise.) So I asked Stella what she would say to anyone listening who hears all of this or reads her book and decides against threesome play.
Stella:
I would say that that is great news. I think that learning what you don’t want to do is just as valuable as learning what you do want to do. And it makes all of the things you are a yes to, that is rooted even more deeply then, when you know what your nos are. And I’m really glad that you brought that up because I feel very uncomfortable with anything that is sort of positioned as aspirational.
There was a company that wanted to work with me for marketing and they wanted it to be very like “oh, be like Stella and be this amazing like sex person,” about my real life. I’m like, are you kidding me? I screw stuff up all the time. And I want to be honest about that. Because nobody has it all figured out. All of the supposed sex educators that I know have goofy screw ups in their personal life on a regular basis. Hopefully they’re handling it well and have the tools to, you know, have the conversations and deal with it. But nobody is having some perfect, amazing sex life. That is not real.
And I don’t think any of this is better. You know, this is something I’ve really learned to at least try to emphasize in my classes, especially when I’m speaking in colleges, but across the board, is I don’t think that polyamory or any, you know, kind of open relationship is necessarily better. I don’t think kinky sex is necessarily better. I don’t think any of this is more evolved or aspirational. It is just some stuff you could do, if you wanted to.
What I think is important and essential is that whatever you’re doing, that it is a fully informed, freely made choice. I want people to know what their choices are.
I have nothing against vanilla sex. I have tons of vanilla sex. Just because I teach, you know, bondage or any of that, it is not included in all of my sex. In fact, I’m lazy a lot of the time. I am all for the completely vanilla, eye-gazey, sweet sex.
August (narration):
I really appreciate that Stella shared all of that, because there seems to be a misperception about anyone in the sexuality field that we’re all really into group sex and kinky sex and having the wildest possible sex as often as possible. And those ideas carry over into mixed messages about threesomes, too. When it comes to shedding light on the overglorifying of any type of sex, Stella really never holds back.
Stella:
I feel like my brand is going to become sort of the jaded sex educator because of how often I say things are overrated because I’m asked about the act. I was quoted in something about having sex underwater. And I think my first quote was, “it’s overrated.” And that’s because we focus on the thing and not the connection.
You know, sex underwater, who cares? Like who are you having sex with? Do you like them? Do you enjoy them? In which case, underwater might be great and so would in the bed. And same with threesomes. You know, if if you really like the people, and there’s a spark, and you’re in a good place with all of the folks, it’s going to be lovely. And if it’s not clicking with the people, nothing about there being three of them is going to make it good.
I opt out of stuff all the time. I was sort of the facilitator for some friends of mine getting together and was invited to a threesome, and I brought a book with me and I read by a fireplace while my friends had sex in front of me. And my whole participation was sort of handing over the lube bottle and, I think, maybe throwing them a towel at one point. And I really did just sit there and read a book. I’m like, I’m so glad y’all get to hook up and I am going to sit here.
There is nothing magical about threesomes or group sex or sex underwater or certain sex positions. None of those bring their own magical alchemy; it is just the people and the connection.
August (narration):
If you do go about a threesome conscientiously, taking all of the steps and planning well, making sure like the people you’re playing with and you’re on the same page, you may end up loving threesomes routinely or that one unique experience you can fondly look back on. Or, in the process of deciding whether to not go try a threesome, you might decide against them. Either way, that conscientiousness can pay off hugely.
When Stella works with couples who are exploring threesome possibilities, a variety of rewards play out.
Stella:
I think being able to even just to have the conversations, whether or not the threesome or the whatever ends up happening, is very valuable. Being able to be open about your sexual fantasies, and be validated and embraced rather than shamed for them, which is the fear a lot of people have. Just that, I think, has a lot of value.
And for folks who end up doing it, assuming it goes well, I think it can be incredibly validating when your fears don’t come to pass, if you have been worried that your partner is going to prefer somebody else over you, and then you have sex with somebody else and look at that, they still like you. That’s this amazing feeling. So that is something that I think can be incredibly healing, sometimes about multi-person sex is seeing they do have options and they are still in to me.
There’s a threesome I talk about in the book where I was experiencing a lot of jealousy. I basically watched my partner with somebody else and saw how different it was. Every connection between people is going to be different. It’s not about better or worse. It’s about the different dynamics that come up between different people. And that, for me, made the connection with other people feel less threatening. So I think that there’s a lot there where we can sort of learn and grow.
And I think seeing other people experience pleasure is a great way to deepen intimacy as well. You know, seeing somebody being vulnerable, seeing somebody get to try new things, having them share that with you That is powerful stuff that can really help strengthen a relationship.
[a few bars of optimistic music]
August (narration):
I asked Stella to leave us with a tip or two for someone who’s interested in their first threesome—any practices she would recommend.
Stella:
Definitely starting slow, start very slow, start very small. If it is sort of in a private sphere, again, having a night that is we’re all gonna watch a movie together and then we’ll make out a little bit. Or some of the baby steps that I mentioned like, you know, try and going to a strip club or something like that where your first times are very slow, very manageable, very easy to change your mind and stop. So, making sure you have stopping points, pre-negotiated check ins, let’s do this, and then we’re going to talk. It is so much easier to go back and do more later. And you can’t undo things, if you have gone too far.
I feel like we learn this thing with sex, you know, early, early on, in our explorations. We get this idea that we just sort of keep going until there’s a no. And so and that leads to this sort of hurrying because you’re trying to get as much as you can before it comes to a stop. Or this happens before exploring sex in spaces, where we don’t have a lot of privacy and there’s this idea to like, rush and get things in.
And I feel like this can happen with threesomes as well, as someone, you know, is so worried about it coming to an end that they’re just in a hurry to like, again, get to all of the things that they have in mind. Being in a hurry like that doesn’t tend to lead to amazing sex. And you’re more likely to push through one or more people’s boundaries. And you’re not likely to get an encore performance if in those circumstances.
But if all you do is make out and everyone thinks it’s super hot, then you’re very likely to get a second date and maybe get to do a little bit more next time. So going slow is sort of the number one thing. That I would recommend and talking about it more than you think that you need to.
[a few bars of optimistic music]
August (narration):
To learn more from Stella Harris, follow her on Instagram @StellaHarrisErotica and visit her website, stellaharris.net. She has a book launch party for The Ultimate Guide to Threesomes coming up on Tuesday, March 9th at 5:30pm Pacific time with SheBop. She’ll be reading from the book, answering attendees’ questions and more. The event is free, but you have to register in order to get access.
Many of the benefits of threesomes can come from toys and other sex accessories, too: things like newness, exploration, watching a partner play or being watched. So if you’d like to add some spice, novelty and pleasure to your life that way, head to thepleasurechest.com.
Stream the full episode, including Dr. Megan Fleming’s thoughts for a listener who’s struggling after a threesome didn’t go as she’d hoped, up above or on your favorite podcast app!
For more Girl Boner fun and to support the show, join me on Patreon: patreon.com/girlboner.
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