6 Common Relationship Problems: How to Heal and Move Forward

August:

I’m curious about your personal journey. What do you recall learning about sex and sexuality when you were growing up?

Laurie:

I think like many people, my early sex education was very subliminal, vague – impressionistic, if you will. I remember thinking my parents would encourage me to think freely. They wouldn’t have ever said masturbation is bad. But I remember getting caught and being embarrassed. I also remember showing off  – like show and tell of my own private parts to my brother’s friends to get their attention

August:

How did that go over?

Laurie: 

That went great. That strategy continues to work to this day to get attention. But interesting, right? Just at such a young age, I understood that this body could get me things that I wanted, for better or worse. Unfortunately, years afterwards, I felt a lot of shame about that. But at the time, I thought it was a very clever strategy.

August:

At what point did you experience that shift when you realized that you had shame? I feel like it can be so insidious when we grow up with that subliminal shame. Such a great way to describe it, because it’s so embedded that we don’t even know it’s there, usually until there’s an epiphany.

Laurie:

Yeah, and I can tell you, like many people, there are probably at least a good ten – what we call in the Handel Method – hauntings. Ten of those moments where certain decisions were made.  I can remember being I think 12 or 13 and trying my first blow job, which I had no idea what I was doing. I mean looking back at it now I just want to cry and laugh for those poor children in that sleeping bag that were experimenting and did not know anything and certainly didn’t know how to talk to each other. And then I can recount probably several – every few years, another incident or haunting where I made decisions about sex and about myself and about love and all of those things that I didn’t ever relook at until I met my coach and did one of these modules in our Inner.U Love program where you have to go back and actually look at all those shaping moments one by one. And what did you learn? What did you think it meant? And actually go unravel them

August:   

Those questions are so important to ask ourselves, aren’t they, about sex, about relationships, about these really important intimate topics that we don’t learn much about. Is there an experience that you could share about the positive shifts that happened from that self-awareness?

Laurie: 

Well, I think taking the taboo away alone is hugely freeing, just even talking to another human being, which is obviously part of your mission. Just even talking to another human being about masturbation or early sexual experiences, or what you like or don’t like, is incredibly freeing. I would say, I felt 10 times better just in listing those hauntings and talking to somebody about them. And then in many cases, I went back to the people who were involved. And I found out what really happened or what their perspective on what happened was. There were some things I was incredibly embarrassed about that I went back and talked to my mother about in my 30s when I was in coaching, and she told me all her stories, and guess what? Not that dissimilar to my stories. And that moment of relating and of understanding where this all even comes from, which is, you know, lineage in a lot of cases, and just the universality of being a human being, was incredibly relieving. And there was one point, I remember I was literally listing like, “Mom, this happened to me and that went wrong and that,” she said, “Well, what? What were you expecting? Why did you think that was so bad?” And things that had haunted me and made me ashamed, experiments I had done with friends and family, all of a sudden became totally okay and normal even. And that changed my entire life

August:

It changes how you walk around in the world, doesn’t it?

Laurie:

Completely.

August:   

What inspired you to pursue the work you do in people’s romantic lives?

Laurie:

Well, I had my own near divorce experience. I call it you know, NDE. NDE is near divorce experiences; it’s very popular. So again, I came to coaching to work on my career, just to be clear. But one of the first things we do in the Handel Method is have you look at what you dream about in all the areas of your life. So, as I was telling the story about my marriage, the coach could already see, “Laurie, this is not good. If you’re not having sex with your husband, that’s called a roommate. That’s not a marriage. That’s not what you meant, right?” I was like, “Uh, right.” So that was a huge wake up. And that set in motion about a six month process of first saving my marriage because it was gonna go bad, and then reinventing my marriage and my sex life. And that was about 15 years ago, and then it just keeps getting better, because I keep employing that. But in that particular moment, where we were near through, and we turned it all around, like a 180. That’s what had me, “Oh my gosh, I have to share this because this is not that complicated, but it changes everything. So I need to –“ I was already thinking of being a coach but I then I realized this as a specialty because I feel it so viscerally for myself.

1 Feeling More like Roommates than Lovers

August:

And you want to share it with everyone, when you actually experience that. I love what you said about recreating your relationship. It ties so well into this listener question just by chance that we received from Jared who wrote this: “Hi, my partner, a man, and I have reached a difficult point in our relationship. We met over 12 years ago, fell in love and got married, that was 8 years ago, and recently have been pushing each other’s buttons, not in a good way. We argue over small things and feel more like roommates than lovers. One of our friends suggested opening the marriage, but that doesn’t feel right to either of us. We love each other deeply and do agree that something needs to change. We do not have access to therapy at the moment. Any suggestions would be most welcome.” Jared, thank you so much for trusting us with this question. I think it’s beautiful that you and your partner, your husband, want to work on this. I think that alone is really huge. Here is what Dr. Megan Fleming of greatlifegreatsex.com had to say:

Dr. Megan:

Jared, thanks so much for this question. And I truly love this question… You’re not alone. In fact, this is very much the nature of relationship, where we get to sort of push each other’s buttons and feel more roommates and lovers. These are common complaints I see all the time from couples that I work with in my office. And I think it’s so important that you also have been able to check in with yourselves, because even though friends are trying to be helpful and making suggestions about, say, opening your marriage, that it just doesn’t feel right to you both. I’m a firm believer, we are all our own experts and to really truly listen to that inner guidance 

I’m also hearing that you love each other, and you know that something needs to change. So, fantastic. It sounds like you both, in a sense, are on the same page. It’s something I often work with couples around. The relationship that you’re in isn’t working. That relationship needs to die. You need to create the new 2.0 – the new and improved software upgrade of your relationship. And you both need to get really clear about the relationship that you desire. As it started in the beginning, in the romantic phase, how does that look and feel? In order to know what you’re working toward, you have to have a clear vision of what you both want to be experiencing in your marriage and in your relationships

Coming back to the fact that this is really about skills, and we weren’t taught them and we were drawn together for a reason; we don’t have chemistry with everybody. But we also know that that romantic phase with dopamine and the oxytocin and all the feel-good chemicals in our body – that is meant to end. And that is where what I call “the rubber meets the road.” That conflict is really growth trying to happen. Because yes, we absolutely push each other’s buttons. But those growth opportunities are able to heal, ultimately, what’s underneath those triggers. Usually those buttons were installed in childhood. Sometimes they were installed by previous partners, or perhaps, again, if you’ve been in relationship long enough with one another, but the reality is, it’s always with underneath that pain, what is getting activated? What is getting kicked up? And that when we feel our buttons or triggers are getting activated, guess what? We act protectively and defensively because we’re trying to take care of ourselves. We’re wired for survival. When we come from the protective, defensive parts of ourselves – I call that the ugly parts of ourselves, not the best parts of ourselves that ultimately drew you together in the first place.  

John Gottman, the well-known marital researcher, calls this negative sentiment override. That is a pattern of behaviors where you’re just consistently bringing out the worst in one another. No wonder there’s no erotic energy. No wonder you’re feeling like roommates. He has a great video called Making Marriage Work. It’s definitely worth watching for anybody listening in who’s in relationship, because he really talks about the relationship skills and practices do make the difference. And he describes what he calls the masters versus disasters in relationships and the differences in the way that those look

I know you’ve heard me say it before, often when we’re stuck in a relationship, or we’re feeling those pain points, we start to think, “Maybe the relationship needs to end or maybe I chose the wrong partner.” It’s not about choosing a partner as much in some ways, it’s about being the right partner, but it’s also to appreciate we have these fantasies that the grass is greener on the other side. And I always say, “It’s where you water it.” So the skills about watering the grass, some of them are just practices and behaviors like sharing appreciation: “You know, I really appreciate when you bring me that cup of coffee.” or, “I’m running late from work and you’re willing to pick up dinner, or make dinner.” So, appreciations, caring behaviors, surprises, and flirting. Really creating the conditions where sexual energy is, in that which brought you together in the first place. When you’re coming from best of self, once again, that really can emerge. 

I also want to leave you some other resources. Because, a relationship is work. I always say that work isn’t a dirty word, any more than sex is. We have a lot of negative connotations to work, as some people – not anybody listening here on Girl Boner – but some people have negative connotations around sex. And the reality is the things that we work on and put effort into are actually the things we can count on and have sustainability. So really take the time and energy. Listen, when and if the self-help books aren’t helpful – I’m going to let you know those resources – yes, absolutely seek a qualified marital counselor or therapist. Because it’s not meant for you to do the work alone when and if you guys continue to feel stuck. But I also think that you can if you’re really both committed, and take the time and the energy, take one book chapter at a time, really create these skills, because they really are what is going to make you both the masters of your relationship. So the first book I’d recommend is Harville Hendricks, Getting the Love You Want. I think this is a fantastic book. It’s the foundation of IMAGO which is a kind of couples therapy and it really talks about the nature of relationship and those dynamics. Another one is Sue Johnson, Hold Me Tight: Seven Conversations for a Lifetime of Love. And the third is John Gottman’s latest, Eight Dates to Keep Your Relationship Happy, Thriving and Lasting. So hopefully you really take advantage of those resources knowing that these are skills and tools, and Jared, as always, we’d love to hear how it goes.

August:

Thank you so much, Dr. Megan. She brought such wonderful points. I love that she said the 2.0 of your relationship, which sounds like what you cultivated in your own experience. And I imagine you’ve helped many people since then do the same?

Laurie:

Indeed.

2 Taking a Partner for Granted

August:

So, did you relate to what Jared said? First of all, did it sound a lot like what you were going through?

Laurie:

Yeah, except I wasn’t even complaining about it. It took it took seeing my husband start to flirt with my assistant to wake me up and go, “Oh, I could lose this. I can actually lose this.” And like this wonderful doctor just said, “the grass is not greener.” And I was very much aware, even though I was tanking this and complaining about my husband being disconnected and complaining about how hard it is to raise young children and all this, I still was not going to prefer being divorced. That is what woke me up to deal with it.

August:

Sure. It’s interesting she mentioned gratitude being very helpful. And what you were describing sounds like something we can all fall into where we do, we take for granted, this person is there, this is life, we have so much going on. And they’re always going to be there. And then, “Oh, I could lose this.”

Laurie: 

I looked around, and I thought, “This is normal. We have two little kids at home. It’s normal to be disconnected from my body after giving birth.” Meanwhile, I was eating sugar all the time. I joke sugar was my true love. I was disconnected from my husband as a love object or a sex object or a partner other than in coparenting and running the household. So, I didn’t even notice what I was missing.Not Addressing Underlying Issues

August:

And did your husband express any frustrations? Were these conversations you were having prior to that?

Laurie:

The other thing is it seemed like there was a tacit agreement, “We’re just going to let this suck.” I think a lot of times, good guys, if they’re being rejected sexually enough times, they’re not going to keep trying, they’re going to figure out how to get those needs met some other way or not get them met and just try to put them to bed, which is really sad. I’m so grateful because I think my husband’s a good enough man that he really would have tolerated it for a bit longer, a nice enough person. But it was wrong. I always look back and people say, am I upset that he started to flirt with my assistant? Absolutely not. It makes perfect sense. I’m proud of him for not actually cheating. And for being willing to go through changing with me. But I totally understand why he would have needed validation, attention, affection. So what was he supposed to do?

August:

Yeah, we all look for it somewhere. And recognizing that there is a deeper issue going on is so big and so crucial. What were some of the steps that helped most to climb out of that? Because the realization must have felt pretty extreme.

Laurie: 

There were two major, major things. When I first started working with my coach, she said, “Do you know you can change everything about your life with three promises? Three promises could change everything?” And, they did. Just three simple shifts of behavior, based on shifts of thinking, of course, changed everything. The first thing we looked at is, “Why don’t you have that ideal? Why don’t you have connection and intimacy and sex?” And my answer was, “Well, he doesn’t show up. He doesn’t talk to me. He doesn’t share himself.”

And my coach called bs on that immediately. She said, “That can’t be the reason. It doesn’t make any sense. Go find out the real reason.” I sat down with my husband. I told him my dream I had articulated this beautiful dream, which is module one in our In our method, and I said, “Why do you think we don’t have this?” and he was brave enough, after three very nice requests on my part, to tell me, “I have never gotten through a complete thought with you, Laurie. After three sentences you interrupt me. And I know that works with your girlfriends and you don’t do it on purpose, but I cannot get my train of thought back when you do that, and I stopped trying to talk to you years ago.”

August:

How did that feel? 

Laurie:

Simultaneously mortifying, and a complete relief. Because I can change that.

August:

And you recognized that once he pointed it out.

Laurie:

I wanted to defend myself. I’ll be honest, I did. And then my whole life flashed before my face. All the people I had been selfish with, not listened to, people who felt dominated by me. The story started to make sense, as to how I could keep people around wanting my approval and wanting my attention, but never validate them fully. It made sense. It was a pattern. And I knew I was going to have to report back to my coach. So I decided to lay down my defense, and say, “You are so right. I said, ‘love, honor and cherish’ in front of all these people, and not listening to your entire story is not that and I am so sorry.” And then, in that moment, I promised him no more interrupting, which was a big check to write. Big. Because I was not trained in that. Not my culture. So I made that promise. And that became the one of the few promises that I made that changed everything forever. And I still have that promise and it’s not an intention. It’s not a good idea. Unlike other self-help I had done before it is a promise. And at the time, I made the promise that if I broke that promise, he would get a minute of a blowjob. For every time I interrupted him, he could rack it up for as long as he wanted, and he could cash it in whenever he wanted. I was gonna put my mouth to good use. Finally, and saddest part about that, he said, “I’d rather you listen to me.”

August:

I think that’s a really interesting and meaningful example. Because when we think of our ideas of gender, we think about a man in a heterosexual relationship, and if you go to them and say, “Hey, what’s the problem?” the presumption is, “Oh, I’m not getting enough. We’re not having sex enough. We need to be more sexual.” And he got right to an underlying – there’s this underlying piece because for all of us, sex is not just a schwing. We have things going on and all these emotional layers and it’s cool that he already had an answer. He did some introspection.

Laurie: He’s a very special person. He’s wonderful.

3 Not Making Time for Sex or Intimacy

August:  

What were the other promises?

Laurie:

We couldn’t ignore the fact that I stopped having sex with him. He didn’t stop having sex with me. I stopped having sex with him. And of course, I had lots of reasons. The kids, the exhaustion.

One thing I was thinking about Jared’s question is the way we think usually is that if you’re in the mood, you have sex. If you’re getting along, you have sex. What I teach my clients is if you have sex, you will be getting along. It’s the opposite. Imagine that. Imagine if you do the thing consistent with your ideal, you get the feeling rather than waiting for the feeling, which is a bit like the weather, to do the right thing, quote unquote, the right thing for your marriage. I couldn’t any longer peddle the notion that sex was being done to me, or something I had to give. It is a beautiful act of intimacy, connection, vulnerability, that I choose to do with this one other person in my case, and I was withholding it on purpose, to get the cake instead, and to get to my TV show, and to punish him for whatever I thought he did wrong. And that just was not consistent with the vow I made in front of everybody. So, simply, I started out with once a week, and my little joke to my clients is light a candle. It’s not that complicated. And I thought my coach was joking when she said light a candle. But she wasn’t joking. Like literally light a candle.

August:  

Having a ritual.

Laurie: 

Jared, if you light a candle, that means you’re having sex. If he lights a candle, that means you’re having sex. Just make that promise to each other.

August:

Did you schedule it? Or was it more of a we can both choose whenever we want to light a candle.

Laurie: 

Ostensibly, it is not scheduled. However, there are certain patterns that we have found work for our schedule. There are certain expectations but there’s also, again, I have this promise to this day still, because I would still prefer to watch Netflix then be vulnerable and have to pay attention to pleasure. I still want to avoid that. I still to this day, have a sex promise. It’s more than it used to be. We’re both strategizing. How do we do this?

I came home from Israel last week at five in the morning, he’s like, “Come see me at seven.” So we’re always strategizing, and it will be like my mother-in-law’s sleeping in this bedroom, my other kid’s sleeping… So we strategize because we both know that it’s what maintains our good life. We’re in open communication about so huge making it happen.

August:

That’s awesome. May I ask you about your masturbatory practices?

Laurie:

Sure.

August:

You mentioned having a disconnection from pleasure for yourself. When your marriage was essentially sexless, were you also disconnected? Were you having any sort of solo play?

Laurie: 

I doubt it. I don’t remember but I doubt. I was really having my duo with sugar. It was really providing me a lot of pleasure. I mean, maybe I certainly wouldn’t have been against the idea, but I’m more a workaholic. I love to work and then I had work and kids and TV and chocolate and that was plenty to keep me busy. At this point in my life, I am very pro masturbation for myself and others and I even have had it for myself as a consequence, you know how I had those, you know, the blowjob as a consequence, or if I don’t have sex twice a week, the next week, I have more adventurous sex. I like to put a little consequence in. And for me, sometimes having an orgasm could be a good consequence. Because again, I’m lazy about it, I avoid it. I prefer the high of working, but I know it’s so good for me. I just know it’s so good for me. So if I find myself running on adrenaline, and being a nutball, in the past, I’ve had the consequence that I have to have an orgasm that same day, which means I have to either commission my husband or do it myself. And that just resets the vibe.

August:   

Yeah, that’s fascinating. Because it’s a reward and punishment the same time.

Laurie: 

For me. It wouldn’t work as a consequence for everyone, but trick about consequences. And this is a special, special sauce of the Handel Method. It’s one of the modules. If you can come up with annoying consequences that are not punitive, you can get yourself to do almost anything. And for me, causing myself an orgasm is the perfect, annoying, but not punitive consequence because it means I have to take a break, I have to change my focus, I have to pay attention to myself. But in the end, I’m really glad I did that. And to me, it’s also the perfect consequence for a behavior that is unhealthy, you know, mentally and emotionally like being a workaholic or running on adrenaline, that type of thing.

August:   

Completely, and I appreciate that you said different things work for different people.

4 Sabotaging Relationships

We have another question that I’d love to hear your thoughts on, because this really made me think. It’s from Izzy who wrote this, “How do you know if you’re sabotaging potential relationships? I’ve been single for a couple of years now after a major difficult breakup and have been using Tinder to meet guys. I keep feeling so disappointed on the first date, even though they’ve all seemed like cool people. Is that my gut being right? Or me being too picky or maybe scared? Just wondering how to sort this all out.” When I first read this one thing that struck me was that it sounded like there was a lot of emphasis on this first date. And I’m curious what you thought about her circumstances, all these wonderful –

Laurie:

It’s such a good question. It’s such a popular question. It’s beautifully put Izzy, because you’re kind of speaking to all the layers. One of the modules in Inner.U Love has you deal with your history. Literally everything, not only your history, your parents’ history too, because let’s face it, you’re acting all of it out. You might be scared, and you might be scared based on things that you know about or don’t even know about yourself and other people in your family. And so you’re right to suggest that I could give you tips on how to get a better first date or tips on how to vet people better. I have loads of those, but if you are walking around resonating with the consciousness of “this cannot work out, this does not work out,” you are going to get that result. All your first dates are going to be duds.

My first suggestion is go do the work to really unpack why you might be scared and what that’s all about, and what the patterns are and how you stop doing those patterns. My second suggestion is a more practical one. Have you heard of the three H’s? We say in any good relationship, or even – you’ll see it applies to other things. But in any good relationship, your head, your heart, and your hoo-ha all have to be satisfied. That’s the three H’s: head, heart, hoo-ha. Head, heart, heat. However you want to put it. So. And that makes sense, right?

It has to practically work for your life, they have to want the same thing, be in your neighborhood, your heart has to feel connected and trusting and your hoo-ha needs to be turned on. And most of us sell out on one or two of those and don’t believe we can have all three.

We have a magic trick that everyone hates. But anyone who does it swears by it. To never have a dud date again, all you have to do is have a video date before you meet the person in real life. A five-minute, two-minute video, “Hey, I just want to see if we have chemistry. Do you mind if we FaceTime or Google Hangout or whatever it is, Skype, before we meet in person? You seem great. I love what I’m seeing. I just want to see if there’s chemistry.” That is an honest straightforward simple request that if someone is not interested, they will decline and you will avoid ever having a dud date, or if they’re lying, obviously. But if they’re interested in you, and they like you and they’re going to take the trouble to go out with you spend time and money, they’ll have a video date with you.

August:  

Yeah, it might even take some of the pressure off. Because it sounds like – I think it can become a pattern where you’re assuming on some level this is going to be a dud, right? We hear about the first impression being everything. Sometimes people are nervous on first dates. You might not get to know a person really well. Or I think, if we have really high expectations, where we think I’m going to know if this person is “the one.” I used to fall into that, where I thought I would meet the one. The only one; I found him in the haystack. Because he’s be magical. And yeah, fairies and stars.

Laurie:

Isn’t Disney lovely, how they did that to us?

August:  

Yes. I think having an attitude of, once you do decide to have the video date and then you do go out, have the intention of, “This is fun. Let’s go and just get to know each other a little bit instead of ‘Should we get married?’”

5 Dating Outside of Your “League” (Compatibility Issues)

Laurie: 

And the beauty is, if you think of it that way, every date on the way to your one, or your ones, whatever you’re looking for, is a lesson. It’s a learning. You’re either going to learn something, you’re going to help someone, you’re going to do business with someone, you’re going to find a love of your life. If you do this properly, there will be no wasted date. So you might as well have fun and you might as well vet, you might as well vet appropriately.

Okay, but that doesn’t really answer the question, “Am I being too picky?” There really is such a thing as leagues. And this is a very taboo topic. Nobody likes to talk about leagues. It’s like, “No, la, la, la, doesn’t exist.” But it’s like a five-star restaurant or a great diner, right? They’re both great meals. But they’re in different leagues. They’re just in different leagues. So you can get the best meal of your life at a diner and be like, “Oh my God, my favorite diner, this is so good!” Same thing with five-star restaurants. So human beings should not be so offended by the concept of leagues. I wish we would be more sober about it and just go, “huh.” So you might be fishing in the wrong league. You really might be misestimating your own league, and you think you should do better. And you think someone should compensate for your lack of success or health or money or whatever it is, and that’s not going to work, you will keep being disappointed.

August:

Do you think that leagues are not so much a ranking system? Like there’s the top league and there’s a league above me and below me? Is the league more the one that’s most ideal for you? Because I think that’s the problem that people have with leagues is it’s like a class system.

Laurie: 

Right. Exactly. It doesn’t really work that way. So you could be someone who lives with your mother and you think that drops you down a league, but it doesn’t drop you down a league if you find someone who has four dogs, you know,  or you find someone who’s in a 12-step program, and you’re really religious or… So it’s about the compatibility. It’s not about a ranking, better or worse. It’s not better to have more money. It’s not better to be thinner. It’s better to love your life. It’s – I shouldn’t say better; it’s more attractive. It’s more attractive to love your life; it’s more attractive to be proud of yourself. So it’s not about getting a particular body or bank account. I would recommend getting those areas of your life to what you consider to be an 8, 9 or 10 on a scale of 1 to 10, so that you exude confidence and sexiness. But that’s your definition. We call it personal integrity, because it’s your definition. It’s not what I think you should look like and what you should earn.

6 Different Sexual Desires

August:  

I appreciate that so much. The last question we’re going to answer today ties a little bit into the hoo-ha compatibility, I think. We had a couple of people ask about secrets in a partner sex life. And this specific comment from T, who said “I recently found out that my girlfriend is into BDSM. And I am not. So confused about how to deal with that.” This person went on to say that it felt like this whole other secret part of life that was kind of hidden. And one thing that struck me was, when we think about BDSM. I used to think BDSM meant whips and chains and violence, like consensual violence. And that may be a part of it. But there are so many other representations of BDSM. So I wonder if T doesn’t realize that there’s also temperature play. Candles. You know, there are little flickings, just a soft little tap… having those conversations about what turns you on. But I think that one of the issues here is feeling something’s hidden.

Laurie:

Sure, again, whole module on the art of honesty. We literally think that your key to being intimate, having good sex, is telling the truth, period. That’s what the whole TEDx talk is on, by the way, it’s about truth-telling. The biggest turn-on is truth telling. And that’s a turn-on for your head, your heart and your hoo-ha. So we help people tell more of the truth earlier on, so this doesn’t happen. However, if you have skipped it accidentally and you thought you’d be more attractive as the fake you, instead of the real you, you can backtrack. And if it blows the relationship, good. That’s appropriate. And if it doesn’t blow the relationship, great. You just got so much closer.

August:   

Yes, because those vulnerable questions and discussions are what, just as you displayed in your own life, that is where we grow. That is where we find that intimacy and we get the butterflies and this little bit of sweat and oh, yeah, scary. And, yeah, it can go in any direction.

Laurie:

Five years ago, to that point, I handed over a list of all of my sexual fantasies to my husband, just for kicks, right? Just because I teach people to tell the truth. And I thought, well, he doesn’t know all of them. He doesn’t know everything I ever think about.

August:

I love that.

Laurie:

And I was mortified. I mean, it was just like being young all over again. You know, telling a secret, finding a secret to tell.

August:  

Was it impromptu or did you put time in?

Laurie:

I wouldn’t say put a lot of time into it because I wanted to get it over with. But it took some thinking and writing and exploring. And it was a great exercise for me, and a great exercise for our relationship. But the point being, we are liars. We are naturally born liars. I think statistics show several times a day at least. So there’s always – please don’t try to find a partner that doesn’t lie to you, or that isn’t hiding something. There really are the chapters you show when you show them. But the good news is, I’m giving everyone permission to tell more of the truth sooner so that you find your people or your person sooner. But the other good news is, you’re going to keep finding stuff. So intimacy will keep staying interesting and juicy, because you can keep finding corners you have not unlocked and opened to your, your chosen partner or partners.

August:

That’s such a great idea to have a list, too. We talk about Yes, No, Maybe lists where, for example, you could use this in this scenario if they have the conversation and they decide to maybe tiptoe in. I don’t think that both partners in a couple have to have all the same fantasies, certainly.

Laurie:

I hope not!

August:

So one person will do BDSM. There’s so many other ways you can engage, like reading erotica, that’s BDSM, or so many things.

Laurie:

It’s worth a talk.

August:

It’s worth a talk. Probably a lot of talk.

Laurie:

It’s worth a talk to see what it means. And there are – this is, again, another key point that we make with our clients all the time – there are deal breakers. There are. “I want to have kids, you don’t want to have kids; I want to tie you up, you don’t want to be tied up”. So there are many things we can compromise on. I’m pretty sure I could convince my husband to try anything, if I really, really, really want it. But there are boundaries and there are things that are deal breakers. And if that turns out to be a deal breaker, it’s okay. That’s not your person. It’s really okay and you had whatever you had, it was great. You learned, you grew, and then maybe that person will discover maybe I tell that by the third date or the fifth date. Next time I don’t wait till the seven months. Because there really is the chance that it’s a deal breaker. And that’s like, STIs, you know, anything that’s off the beaten track sexually. Those can be dealbreakers for people. Those can be dealbreakers for people. And you don’t know unless you ask.

August:

Yeah. And I will say if someone is a bit ignorant about STIs, they might think they can’t have a great sex life with you. And if that’s that person, they’re not willing to learn that it’s more likely you’ll get an STI in your life than not.

Laurie:

Thank you. Please keep talking about it. People don’t understand.. And so again, that’s why I’m always really encouraging people to talk more, sooner, and educate the populace. But if the populace don’t want to be educated, that’s not your person.

August:

Exactly. Yeah. I have a friend Ashley Manta, who’s been on the show and she’s very open about having herpes. And she said it’s been kind of a great way to weed people out.

Laurie:

Oh my gosh, that’s it. I assume you talk about herpes all the time, but I have a very funny game. I like to When I do small group courses. I go, “By the end of this course everyone who has herpes is going to admit it. Okay? Does anyone want to start now just getting it off their chest?” And, you know, by the end, it’s like half the group, you know? And then there’s people that don’t know they have it. But just the amount of shame people have about herpes is remarkable. I can just touch on that like, which is really robbing themselves of love for their entire lives over it, not understanding that it’s rampant.

August:  

And it’s the same virus if you have a cold sore, but we have them separated because if it affects your genitals, then it’s scary.

Laurie:

I’m so, so sorry about that.

August:  

Yeah, yeah, you’re right, though that the dealbreakers and those tough spots. I wonder in this case, too when this person asked about the secret sex life, it may be that they’re concerned that this person is engaging in BDSM with other people, and they’ve been monogamous. There’s so many factors to consider. So I think getting so honest with yourself, because even asking the question sounds like there weren’t a lot of details. You know, I’m a stranger, but this is an anonymous place. I think that sometimes it’s really hard to really own our feelings. And as you were saying, you didn’t know that you were not really happy and fulfilled in many ways. You’re like, this is just the way it is. Your first response too, is, “Oh, because he doesn’t do blank, blank, blank. And you know, in this case, it might be maybe the partner is feeling a little ignored or, who knows what it is, but those conversations are definitely really big.

Would you leave us with a sex or dating tip, something that you feel is maybe an idea that’s not shared enough, something that goes beyond the kind of cliches that we so often hear?

Laurie:

If you’re in a relationship, I want to remind you to remember you picked the person, and we can so easily forget that you picked that person, go back, go find that person who picked that person and get into that feeling again. Because you were the author of that, and you can be the author of anything that’s coming next if you choose it. And you know what I’m going to parlay that right over to the daters too. You have authored more impressive things. You have authored quitting smoking, beating cancer, getting the job of your dreams, finishing your screenplay. You’ve authored amazing things. You think you can’t author finding someone like you to hook up with or stay with for the rest of your life? You haven’t done the work yet. So decide you can.

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